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Help with Latin Translation - jovan66102 - 01-05-2018

I sent this to a member of the forum, but I thought I'd throw it out here for anyone to take a stab at.

In the Roman Canon, in both the OF and EF, the Institution Narrative of the Cup begins, 'Símili modo postquam coenátum est, accípiens et hunc præclárum Cálicem in sanctas ac venerábiles manus suas..'


How would you translate that? I'm especially interested in 'accípiens et hunc præclárum', and the translation of 'præclárum'.

Even tho' it's been 50 years since I formally studied the language, my Latin is still good enough to read most of the Mass with understanding, but I'm writing a review, a section of which hangs on those four words.


RE: Help with Latin Translation - GangGreen - 01-05-2018

I don't know much Latin, but it's translated as:
In like manner, after He had supped, taking also this excellent chalice into His holy and venerable hands

'Símili modo postquam coenátum est, accípiens et hunc præclárum Cálicem in sanctas ac venerábiles manus suas..'

Simili - would be similar
Modo - would be way
Postquam - is after
Coenatum - to eat dinner or have supper in the "he ate dinner" type form.
Accipiens - would be to receive or accept. I'd assume to receive something would also be a way of saying to "take" something. If someone gives you a cup you are receiving it.
hunc - I believe would be this
praeclarum - I guess is very clear/bright or famous
Calicem - Chalice. Noting the above word, famous chalice would be a way of describing the Chalice that Our Lord used. I assumed the translators changed this word into excellent. In the newer translations of the NO they use precious. I'd assume these words make more sense in our modern vocabulary.
sanctas - holy
venerabilites - venerable
manus - hands
suas - his

So I guess a slightly less different sounding translation would be
In a similar way, after he had eaten dinner, he received this famous Chalice into his holy and venerable hands


RE: Help with Latin Translation - jovan66102 - 01-05-2018

I'm specifically concerned with 'hunc praeclarum'. I, too, read 'hunc' as 'this', but I've seen 'praeclarum' translated as 'precious', 'goodly', and 'excellent', so I'm trying to get a handle on it.


RE: Help with Latin Translation - jovan66102 - 01-05-2018

(01-05-2018, 02:58 PM)GangGreen Wrote: In a similar way, after he had eaten dinner, he received this famous Chalice into his holy and venerable hands
You know, I'm wondering if 'accpiens' isn't quite literal, in that someone, a servant or one of the Apostles, handed him the Cup.


RE: Help with Latin Translation - GangGreen - 01-05-2018

Interestingly in this Latin to English dictionary that I found on Google it lists Accipiens as taking or receiving. 
It also lists Praeclarus as very bright, or plain, famous, noble, renowned, excellent, distinguished, brave, gallant, honorable, honest, upright
https://books.google.com/books?id=k1ZFAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=accipiens+to+take&source=bl&ots=u0evQn_k0-&sig=g7QH8zU7qCMmTrb3Lww70j1LEEY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjDzNuM18HYAhWEgJAKHW0RC9QQ6AEILzAB#v=onepage&q=accipiens%20to%20take&f=false

This would put both words perfectly with the English translation we see in the red books as well as my Angelus Press missal :).


RE: Help with Latin Translation - MagisterMusicae - 01-05-2018

(01-05-2018, 03:30 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: I'm specifically concerned with 'hunc praeclarum'. I, too, read 'hunc' as 'this', but I've seen 'praeclarum' translated as 'precious', 'goodly', and 'excellent', so I'm trying to get a handle on it.

the whole phrase is hunc præclarum calicem.

hunc is the masculine accusitive singular of hic.

præclarum is the masculine accusitive singular of præclarus.

calicem is the accusitive singular of calix (which is a masculine third-declension noun, despite the -x)

The principle part of this is hunc ... calicem, which means, quite simply, this chalice.

Now to deal with præclarus, which is a constructed word : præ (from the adverb præ meaning before, or in front of, from which the prefix gives the sense of in command of, of higher dignity than, standing ahead of, preceeding, possessing to an eminent degree, etc.) + clarus (clear, bright, renowned, famous, upstanding, respected).

The sense of præclarus would then be (depending on context) : the preeminent in clarity or brightness, of great or principle renown or fame, the most upstanding or worthy of respect. In an extended sense it could also mean "precious".

Thus, however you put it in English "this chalice" is of eminent renown, worth and excellence.

All three are in the accusative due to being objects of the participle accipiens.


RE: Help with Latin Translation - jovan66102 - 01-05-2018

Thank you, both of you! You've been a tremendous help.