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Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - Printable Version

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RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - Justin Alphonsus - 01-30-2018

Quote:Lets not forget, that we are indeed in the end times...

On what authority are you basing this?  I mean, how do you know it is or it isn't?  Do we have a set date?

I am not trying to detract from the topic at hand, but how can any of us know when the end times will be if even the Angels don't?


RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - Eric F - 01-30-2018

Wide spread apostasy at every level within God's Church is a pretty good indication we're in the last days.


RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - Justin Alphonsus - 01-30-2018

(01-30-2018, 04:54 PM)Eric F Wrote: Wide spread apostasy at every level within God's Church is a pretty good indication we're in the last days.

Then why didn't God "close the book" during the Arian apostasy, that went all the way up, too nearly every bishop on earth and the pope was complacent?  Or the Protestant Revolution, lots of apostasy there too? 

I am not saying that we aren't in the end times, we very well might be.  But we just can't know that with any degree of certainty.  None of us really knows when the end times will be. Maybe tomorrow, maybe 10,000 years.


RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - jovan66102 - 01-30-2018

Well said, JustinAlphonsus! Spot on! I am reminded of the constant 'warnings' from heretics and pagans that the end of the world is upon us. You are quite correct, that we might be in the end times, but I am always bothered by people who assume as a certainty that we are.


RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - Zedta - 01-30-2018

(01-30-2018, 05:01 PM)Justin Alphonsus Wrote:
(01-30-2018, 04:54 PM)Eric F Wrote: Wide spread apostasy at every level within God's Church is a pretty good indication we're in the last days.

Then why didn't God "close the book" during the Arian apostasy, that went all the way up, too nearly every bishop on earth and the pope was complacent?  Or the Protestant Revolution, lots of apostasy there too? 

I am not saying that we aren't in the end times, we very well might be.  But we just can't know that with any degree of certainty.  None of us really knows when the end times will be. Maybe tomorrow, maybe 10,000 years.

No matter what the times may be, it is prudent to act in manner as if it were...to be on guard and to "...hold fast to the traditions...", just as Paul told the Thessalonians when they were confronted with the idea.


RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - jovan66102 - 01-30-2018

Agreed, Z. Just as we should live every day as if it were our last, Memento mori and practise ars moriendi, we should also strive to live as if Christ will return on the morrow.


RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - Justin Alphonsus - 01-30-2018

Absolutely 100% agree with you Zedta.


RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - jovan66102 - 01-30-2018

Speaking of which, here is a link to the Manual of the Confraternity of Our Lord Jesus Christ dying on the Cross, and of the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, his sorrowful Mother, or the 'Bona Mors Confraternity', the Confraternity of a Good Death.


RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - Dave01 - 01-30-2018

(01-30-2018, 05:13 PM)Zedta Wrote: No matter what the times may be, it is prudent to act in manner as if it were...to be on guard and to "...hold fast to the traditions...", just as Paul told the Thessalonians when they were confronted with the idea.

You mean traditional statements like these?:


Quote: Wrote:"Meantime, notice that the Church possesses infallibility not only when she is defining some matters in solemn fashion, but also when she is exercising the full weight of her authority through her ordinary and universal teaching. Consequently, we must hold with an absolute assent, which we call ‘ecclesiastical faith,’ the following theological truths: (a) those which the Magisterium has infallibly defined in solemn fashion; (b) those which the ordinary magisterium dispersed throughout the world unmistakably proposes to its members as something to be held (tenendas). So, for example, one must give an absolute assent to the proposition: ‘Pius XII is [present tense] the legitimate successor of St. Peter’; similarly … one must give an absolute assent to the proposition: ‘Pius XII possesses the primacy of jurisdiction over the entire Church.’ For — skipping the question of how it begins to be proven infallibly for the first time that this individual was legitimately elected to take St. Peter’s place — when someone has been constantly acting as Pope and has theoretically and practically been recognized as such by the bishops and by the universal Church, it is clear that the ordinary and universal magisterium is giving an utterly clear-cut witness to the legitimacy of his succession." (Msgr. Van Noort, Sources of Revelation, p. 265)


Quote: Wrote:Finally, whatever you still think about the possibility or impossibility of the aforementioned hypothesis [of a Pope falling into heresy], at least one point must be considered absolutely incontrovertible and placed firmly above any doubt whatever: the adhesion of the universal Church will be always, in itself, an infallible sign of the legitimacy of a determined Pontiff, and therefore also of the existence of all the conditions required for legitimacy itself. It is not necessary to look far for the proof of this, but we find it immediately in the promise and the infallible providence of Christ: ‘The gates of hell shall not prevail against it,’ and ‘Behold I shall be with you all days.’ For the adhesion of the Church to a false Pontiff would be the same as its adhesion to a false rule of faith, seeing that the Pope is the living rule of faith which the Church must follow and which in fact she always follows. As will become even more clear by what we shall say later, God can permit that at times a vacancy in the Apostolic See be prolonged for a long time. He can also permit that doubt arise about the legitimacy of this or that election. He cannot however permit that the whole Church accept as Pontiff him who is not so truly and legitimately.


Therefore, from the moment in which the Pope is accepted by the Church and united to her as the head to the body, it is no longer permitted to raise doubts about a possible vice of election or a possible lack of any condition whatsoever necessary for legitimacy. For the aforementioned adhesion of the Church heals in the root all fault in the election and proves infallibly the existence of all the required conditions.  Cardinal Billot, Tractatus de Ecclesia Christi, vol. I, pp. 612-613


Quote: Wrote:“It is of no importance that in past centuries some Pontiff was illegitimately elected or took possession of the Pontificate by fraud; it is enough that he was accepted afterwards by the whole Church as Pope, since by such acceptance he would have become the true Pontiff.” St. Alphonsus Liguori, Doctor of the Church



RE: Putting Pope Francis into Perspective - jovan66102 - 01-30-2018

Thank you, Dave! I knew the doctrine, but I didn't have the cites at hand.