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Why Lie? - Printable Version

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Why Lie? - Porkncheese - 10-18-2019

Not long ago many people on this forum were claiming that it is an obligation for Catholics to pray to Mary.

Since then I have brought up this question to many people at church and on forums including priests. "Are Catholics required to pray to Mary?" About 90% said no while 10% said they didn't know. But not one person out of about 200 said yes. 

So I ask myself why? Why would Catholics on this forum lie about such a thing?


RE: WHY LIE??? - Jeeter - 10-18-2019

I could be wrong, but I don't believe devotion/prayer to the BVM is an obligation.  A great idea, to be sure, but I'm not sure it's obligatory.

Perhaps whoever said it was an obligation was mistaken, not outright lying?  Did you check an official source, instead of people's opinions?


RE: WHY LIE??? - Imperator Caesar Trump - 10-18-2019

I personally lie to people when I want to intentionally mislead them or provoke an emotional response for my enjoyment. It makes me feel powerful.

Speaking of which, please post the names and responses of all 200 people you consulted on this question. I would like you to further list their qualifications and sacramental records. It's the only way we can get to the bottom of this, but I am happy to help with it. 

While you were canvassing the entire local Catholic community did you happen to spend any time doing an internet search about your question? Did you read any authoritative sources? What did they tell you? Let's cross reference that with those responses and I am confident we can find the final solution. Together.


RE: Why Lie? - josh987654321 - 10-18-2019

(10-18-2019, 07:44 AM)Porkncheese Wrote: Not long ago many people on this forum were claiming that it is an obligation for Catholics to pray to Mary.

This thread? https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=85142&page=5

In any case, tomato tamata, if you lack any devotion whatsoever to the Blessed Virgin Mary, then there is something wrong IMO, dogma or not, it's necessary to love Our Blessed Mother and it's practically part and parcel with being Catholic. What's the real deep down issue which causes such resistance to our Mother Mary? Christ is the King of Kings which makes Mary the Mother of God and Queen of Queens, we can't expect good favor with the King if we ignore the Queen and see or treat her as just one among the common folk IMO.

(10-18-2019, 07:44 AM)Porkncheese Wrote: Since then I have brought up this question to many people at church and on forums including priests. "Are Catholics required to pray to Mary?" About 90% said no while 10% said they didn't know. But not one person out of about 200 said yes. 

Did you ask Susan from the Parish council? ;)

(10-18-2019, 07:44 AM)Porkncheese Wrote: So I ask myself why? Why would Catholics on this forum lie about such a thing?

As Jeeter said, perhaps they were mistaken or perhaps those you asked in person were mistaken, did those you ask provide any sources or reasons for what they said? I can't go into dogma and what the official line is, as I'm no theologian or canon lawyer etc but I do strongly believe the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Queens, is necessary and I do know that the mountain of evidence, dogma or not, is against you here.

God Bless You


RE: Why Lie? - tonyjohnston1970 - 10-18-2019

(10-18-2019, 07:44 AM)Porkncheese Wrote: Not long ago many people on this forum were claiming that it is an obligation for Catholics to pray to Mary.

Since then I have brought up this question to many people at church and on forums including priests. "Are Catholics required to pray to Mary?" About 90% said no while 10% said they didn't know. But not one person out of about 200 said yes. 

So I ask myself why? Why would Catholics on this forum lie about such a thing?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm  This link will take you to the canon law regarding The Blessed Virgin's Place in the Catholic Church.  Part of being Catholic is a deep understanding that scripture isn't the only revelation that God has given us.  The traditions and dogma of the Church holding such Importance is hard for many protestants to understand, much less accept.  That the Blessed Virgin is and will be venerated may sound strange to you but she is our Queen, the Holy intercessor to our King.  We pray to her because she is another great gift from our Lord.  She unlike the rest of us was born outside of original sin, a pristine vessel from which we received our savior.  Yes, we are obligated to seek her intersession.  Not by canon law but by the essence of what makes us part of the Universal Church.  To fail in this is to fail to be Catholic.  I suspect you enjoy being pedantic but I would advise you to be so in some way that does not endanger your soul.


RE: WHY LIE??? - FultonFan - 10-18-2019

(10-18-2019, 08:35 AM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: I personally lie to people when I want to intentionally mislead them or provoke an emotional response for my enjoyment. It makes me feel powerful.

Speaking of which, please post the names and responses of all 200 people you consulted on this question. I would like you to further list their qualifications and sacramental records. It's the only way we can get to the bottom of this, but I am happy to help with it. 

While you were canvassing the entire local Catholic community did you happen to spend any time doing an internet search about your question? Did you read any authoritative sources? What did they tell you? Let's cross reference that with those responses and I am confident we can find the final solution. Together.



Why Lie? - 1Faith - 10-18-2019

If you sincerely care about this issue, and have an open mind, I would ask you to read two books, both by St. Alphonsus Liguori. First, read Preparation for Death; its about the four last things. Then, and only then, read The Glories of Mary. Much of this second book is going to offend any protestant sensibilities you may have, yes, but St. Alphonsus masterfully lays out the powerful reasons why devotion to Mary is so essential for us sinners. After you read these two books, in that order, you will very clearly see why devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary is so essential.

Is this devotion strictly speaking essential to salvation, in the same way as say baptism is? No. Yet if you read these books you will easily discover why neglecting our Blessed Mother renders your salvation most unlikely.

If you were told to cross the desert so as to reach a specific town, would you not take a map and compass? Sure, its POSSIBLE to reach the town without them, but is most improbable. Without them it is far more likely you are going to die in the desert. Likewise, without the intercession of our Blessed Mother it is most unlikely you are going to make it to heaven, and it is most probable you will perish in sin. Read Preparation for Death and The Glories of Mary to discover why. I trust you sincerely care about the salvation of your soul, and are seeking truth, so I'm imploring you to read these two books. The effort involved in reading a mere two books is a small price to pay for a greater understanding of this, the most important thing of all, your eternal salvation. Please just do it, please, just take my word for it and read these books.


RE: Why Lie? - Eric F - 10-18-2019

Whenever I read about or perform one of the devotions to Our Lady of Lourdes, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of La Salette, Our Lady of Sorrows, etc, the one question I've never ever asked myself was "Is it really necessary for me to do this ?"


RE: Why Lie? - piscis - 10-18-2019

Quote:Not long ago many people on this forum were claiming that it is an obligation for Catholics to pray to Mary.

Where exactly were people claiming this? Can you provide the URL to the thread? Until I see exactly what people were supposedly claiming, who are you to start accusing "many people" of lying?


RE: Why Lie? - JacafamalaRedux - 10-18-2019

Are we required to by the Church? Not like it's been defined as dogma. It's never been needed to define it as dogma because who in the Church has contested the Ave? Who has said we shouldn't? Defined Dogmas are only proclaimed when there's a controversy or questioning on some issue or other. 

Anyway, Our Lady has asked us to. That's good enough. As Fr Relyea says, 'the rosary's not an option, my friend'.