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Do we have to listen to the Pope? - Printable Version

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Do we have to listen to the Pope? - Missbeliever - 01-05-2020

I was told the Pope can't teach heresy. But what if he says something crazy? 
"It has to be ex-cathedra."
But I've also been told that we have to be in line with his manifest will (or something like that) according to the first vatican council when it was dogmatized. That it's not a Catholic thing to ask, "How much must we obey the Pope?"
How do I make sense of the mess of what the Pope says, does or proclaims in say the human fraternity document?
What about his treatment of the Chinese Catholics?
What about the bowl of dirt on the altar at Mass at the closing of the Amazon synod?
If you are all still Catholic here, how do you STAY Catholic?


RE: Do we have to listen to the Pope? - josh987654321 - 01-05-2020

The 'official' position of this forum is that Bergoglio is Pope, and just a bad one, so to pray for him and correct him.

Edited to remove violation of forum rules. - Jovan


God Bless You


RE: Do we have to listen to the Pope? - Augustinian - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 07:22 PM)Missbeliever Wrote: If you are all still Catholic here, how do you STAY Catholic?

By adhering to 1,962 years of established Catholic tradition. Honestly, this past century is the first time in history that every single word out of the Pope's mouth can fall almost immediately on Catholic ears. The Church has existed through worse pontificates, the problem today is the instant global media. Hold fast to Christ, hold fast to the Church and the saints. Remember that even if the Church becomes infinitesimally small, She is still the Church, no matter who is holding the Chair of Peter.


RE: Do we have to listen to the Pope? - austenbosten - 01-05-2020

The Sacraments my boy, the Sacraments.

Also it's important to remember this as I quote the late Fr Hesse: "The Pope is not the President, he's the vice-President."

You are not bound to follow a superior who gives you an evil command.


RE: Do we have to listen to the Pope? - Missbeliever - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 07:26 PM)josh987654321 Wrote: The 'official' position of this forum is that Bergoglio is Pope, and just a bad one, so to pray for him and correct him.

Edited to remove violation of forum rules. - Jovan


God Bless You
So questions regarding him are not allowed?


RE: Do we have to listen to the Pope? - jovan66102 - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 08:40 PM)Missbeliever Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 07:26 PM)josh987654321 Wrote: The 'official' position of this forum is that Bergoglio is Pope, and just a bad one, so to pray for him and correct him.

Edited to remove violation of forum rules. - Jovan


God Bless You
So questions regarding him are not allowed?

Not at all. It's just that the policy of the forum is that he is the Pope and the section of Josh's post that I deleted should have gone in the 'Benevacantism thread' according to the rule laid down by the forum owner.

From Vox:

Here's the deal, folks: this thread -- this one and only thread -- is for the topic of "Benevacantism" -- id est, the assertion that Benedict is actually the Pope, and that Francis isn't or never was, etc.  Let's keep talk on that subject to this single thread so that every thread doesn't end up focusing on it. OK? OK!



RE: Do we have to listen to the Pope? - VoxClamantis - 01-05-2020

Francis is the worst. The very worst of the worst. About as bad as it gets. His globalist attitudes, his treatment of the Chinese Catholics, his laxity toward sin, his attempts to redefine the Church's teachings on capital punishment, his nastiness, his rancor toward orthodox Catholics -- there's a long list of what's wrong with him. But he's not God; he's the Pope (at least that's the assumption), and he's only infallible in certain very limited circumstances. If some future Pope declares him to be a heretic, that's up to that Pope, not us. And so be it.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if that were to happen. But, as said, that's not up to us to decide, and we don't have to try to figure it all out. Our job is to save our souls and the souls of people around us.

If Francis negatively affects your faith, ignore him as much as possible, and know that our medieval ancestors didn't have 24/7 access to papal opinions and asides. If he's not solemnly defining something, pretend he doesn't exist except to pray for him. (for me, he doesn't negatively affect my faith; he just annoys and ticks me off to no end and makes me sad).

Stay close to Christ and the Sacraments. Read old catechisms. Have a decent prayer life. Read orthodox spiritual works. Have hobbies and interests. Focus on others, on service. Know that we will follow Christ in His Passion (and His Resurrection), so no rose gardens were promised in this "vale of tears," and it's OK. Chill in knowing that we do have Christ's promise that the gates of Hell will NOT prevail.


RE: Do we have to listen to the Pope? - austenbosten - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 10:32 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: Francis is the worst. The very worst of the worst. About as bad as it gets. His globalist attitudes, his treatment of the Chinese Catholics, his laxity toward sin, his attempts to redefine the Church's teachings on capital punishment, his nastiness, his rancor toward orthodox Catholics -- there's a long list of what's wrong with him. But he's not God; he's the Pope (at least that's the assumption), and he's only infallible in certain very limited circumstances. If some future Pope declares him to be a heretic, that's up to that Pope, not us. And so be it.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if that were to happen. But, as said, that's not up to us to decide, and we don't have to try to figure it all out. Our job is to save our souls and the souls of people around us.

If Francis negatively affects your faith, ignore him as much as possible, and know that our medieval ancestors didn't have 24/7 access to papal opinions and asides. If he's not solemnly defining something, pretend he doesn't exist except to pray for him. (for me, he doesn't negatively affect my faith; he just annoys and ticks me off to no end and makes me sad).

Stay close to Christ and the Sacraments. Read old catechisms. Have a decent prayer life. Read orthodox spiritual works. Have hobbies and interests. Focus on others, on service. Know that we will follow Christ in His Passion (and His Resurrection), so no rose gardens were promised in this "vale of tears," and it's OK. Chill in knowing that we do have Christ's promise that the gates of Hell will NOT prevail.

I will say I am inclined towards views that run contrary to what we are to assume, but what Vox said is 1000% correct. It's not up to us to decide. While we have consciences and we may decide in our hearts, it's not our positions to make such declarations. Nor should we allow that which is not of our control make or break our shared Faith in Christ Jesus and His Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The best way to handle Bergolgio is to ignore him (I certainly have) and focus on your own salvation. This is Christ's Bride and He will come to Her aid when He deems it the right time.


RE: Do we have to listen to the Pope? - jovan66102 - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 07:22 PM)Missbeliever Wrote: If you are all still Catholic here, how do you STAY Catholic?

By ignoring Francis, adhering to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith, as the Holy Ghost bids us in the Epistle of St Jude, 'to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints', the Faith that was taught for almost 2,000 years until the disaster of the Second Vatican Council and praying daily for Francis and his toadies to convert to that same Catholic Faith.


RE: Do we have to listen to the Pope? - MacPasquale - 01-06-2020

I have found Fr Chad Ripperger's book "Magisterial Authority" to be helpful in balancing out when and when not to listen to those in authority(The Pope).  Give it a read if you haven't already, it might bring you peace.

Also... like everyone else has been saying, ignore the pope(except where we're not allowed to), pray, and receive the Sacraments.