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??? - newenglandsun - 01-26-2020

I was chrismated Melkite last night and told I could receive my first Eucharist today. I showed my Ukrainian pastor the certificate of chrismation and he told me while technically I could receive the Eucharist he still wants to question me before letting me receive it. He stopped short of excommunicating me all together by asking me why I don't just go to the Melkite parish instead. It seems he wants to excommunicate me from his parish.


RE: ??? - FultonFan - 01-26-2020

(01-26-2020, 03:09 PM)newenglandsun Wrote: I was chrismated Melkite last night and told I could receive my first Eucharist today. I showed my Ukrainian pastor the certificate of chrismation and he told me while technically I could receive the Eucharist he still wants to question me before letting me receive it. He stopped short of excommunicating me all together by asking me why I don't just go to the Melkite parish instead. It seems he wants to excommunicate me from his parish.

“Excommunicate you” from “his” parish?
Is this priest in communion with Rome?
How exactly does this priest have the power to excommunicate you?
Don’t tell the exact details here, but what I’m hearing sounds inaccurate, unless he thinks you did something to “ipso facto” warrant excommunication. If that’s the case, ask him what you need to do to be set in good standing. However, this all sounds odd. Has this priest mentioned an abjuration?

However, best to speak to a Bishop or orthodox priest on the matter.
Perhaps your local Bishop or Local Ordinary can clarify what this priest is telling you, because frankly I have no idea.


RE: ??? - MacPasquale - 01-26-2020

Congrats on your Chrismation!


RE: ??? - newenglandsun - 01-26-2020

(01-26-2020, 03:26 PM)FultonFan Wrote:
(01-26-2020, 03:09 PM)newenglandsun Wrote: I was chrismated Melkite last night and told I could receive my first Eucharist today. I showed my Ukrainian pastor the certificate of chrismation and he told me while technically I could receive the Eucharist he still wants to question me before letting me receive it. He stopped short of excommunicating me all together by asking me why I don't just go to the Melkite parish instead. It seems he wants to excommunicate me from his parish.

“Excommunicate you” from “his” parish?
Is this priest in communion with Rome?
How exactly does this priest have the power to excommunicate you?
Don’t tell the exact details here, but what I’m hearing sounds inaccurate, unless he thinks you did something to “ipso facto” warrant excommunication. If that’s the case, ask him what you need to do to be set in good standing. However, this all sounds odd. Has this priest mentioned an abjuration?

However, best to speak to a Bishop or orthodox priest on the matter.
Perhaps your local Bishop or Local Ordinary can clarify what this priest is telling you, because frankly I have no idea.
No. I was literally just chrismated. My godmother's husband wanted me to have the priest put the icon they gave me upon the altar and have him bless it too. Instead, he took it and rather with irritation, threw holy water on it. More like how Moses slammed his staff on the rock. Well, it's blessed but I can't tell them how he blessed it. They used to attend his other parish.

I don't think he understands my issue with big crowds either which is why I don't go to the Melkite parish on Sundays. it has nearly 200 people attending on Sundays. I don't understand why pledging faithfulness to the Ukrainian Catholics is different than pledging to the melkites if they're both in full union uith each other.


RE: ??? - newenglandsun - 01-26-2020

(01-26-2020, 03:26 PM)FultonFan Wrote:
(01-26-2020, 03:09 PM)newenglandsun Wrote: I was chrismated Melkite last night and told I could receive my first Eucharist today. I showed my Ukrainian pastor the certificate of chrismation and he told me while technically I could receive the Eucharist he still wants to question me before letting me receive it. He stopped short of excommunicating me all together by asking me why I don't just go to the Melkite parish instead. It seems he wants to excommunicate me from his parish.

“Excommunicate you” from “his” parish?
Is this priest in communion with Rome?
How exactly does this priest have the power to excommunicate you?
Don’t tell the exact details here, but what I’m hearing sounds inaccurate, unless he thinks you did something to “ipso facto” warrant excommunication. If that’s the case, ask him what you need to do to be set in good standing. However, this all sounds odd. Has this priest mentioned an abjuration?

However, best to speak to a Bishop or orthodox priest on the matter.
Perhaps your local Bishop or Local Ordinary can clarify what this priest is telling you, because frankly I have no idea.
I should be clear that I didn't mean a formal excommunication but rather a refusal to give communion to me until he gets those questions answered...effectively, an excommunication even though any properly disposed Catholic can receive communion at any Catholic parish. Hence, why he probably qualified it with "technically"...


RE: ??? - MagisterMusicae - 01-26-2020

(01-26-2020, 03:09 PM)newenglandsun Wrote: I was chrismated Melkite last night and told I could receive my first Eucharist today. I showed my Ukrainian pastor the certificate of chrismation and he told me while technically I could receive the Eucharist he still wants to question me before letting me receive it. He stopped short of excommunicating me all together by asking me why I don't just go to the Melkite parish instead. It seems he wants to excommunicate me from his parish.

I'm not sure why you would join go to a Melkite priest for Chrismation, when you say you have a Ukranian pastor.

Are you speaking of a Ukrainian Greek Catholic pastor?

If so, I wonder why you would arrange to be Chrismated in a different rite. Canonically, even in the East, the rite in which you are received is usually the rite to which you belong. If you were Chrismated in the Mekite Church, then this would mean you are a Melkite, unless some other Canonical provision were to intervene.

I could see why the priest might have some questions in that case. Perhaps he had previous experience with people who were trying to enter the Church going elsewhere or around his supervision. If so, that also might be why he's wanting to ask questions.


RE: ??? - newenglandsun - 01-26-2020

(01-26-2020, 07:37 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(01-26-2020, 03:09 PM)newenglandsun Wrote: I was chrismated Melkite last night and told I could receive my first Eucharist today. I showed my Ukrainian pastor the certificate of chrismation and he told me while technically I could receive the Eucharist he still wants to question me before letting me receive it. He stopped short of excommunicating me all together by asking me why I don't just go to the Melkite parish instead. It seems he wants to excommunicate me from his parish.

I'm not sure why you would join go to a Melkite priest for Chrismation, when you say you have a Ukranian pastor.

Are you speaking of a Ukrainian Greek Catholic pastor?

If so, I wonder why you would arrange to be Chrismated in a different rite. Canonically, even in the East, the rite in which you are received is usually the rite to which you belong. If you were Chrismated in the Mekite Church, then this would mean you are a Melkite, unless some other Canonical provision were to intervene.

I could see why the priest might have some questions in that case. Perhaps he had previous experience with people who were trying to enter the Church going elsewhere or around his supervision. If so, that also might be why he's wanting to ask questions.
They are literally both Catholic faiths. As for why has been explained elsewhere. It's an unusual situation for me.


RE: ??? - MagisterMusicae - 01-26-2020

(01-26-2020, 08:05 PM)newenglandsun Wrote:
(01-26-2020, 07:37 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(01-26-2020, 03:09 PM)newenglandsun Wrote: I was chrismated Melkite last night and told I could receive my first Eucharist today. I showed my Ukrainian pastor the certificate of chrismation and he told me while technically I could receive the Eucharist he still wants to question me before letting me receive it. He stopped short of excommunicating me all together by asking me why I don't just go to the Melkite parish instead. It seems he wants to excommunicate me from his parish.

I'm not sure why you would join go to a Melkite priest for Chrismation, when you say you have a Ukranian pastor.

Are you speaking of a Ukrainian Greek Catholic pastor?

If so, I wonder why you would arrange to be Chrismated in a different rite. Canonically, even in the East, the rite in which you are received is usually the rite to which you belong. If you were Chrismated in the Mekite Church, then this would mean you are a Melkite, unless some other Canonical provision were to intervene.

I could see why the priest might have some questions in that case. Perhaps he had previous experience with people who were trying to enter the Church going elsewhere or around his supervision. If so, that also might be why he's wanting to ask questions.

They are literally both Catholic faiths. As for why has been explained elsewhere. It's an unusual situation for me.

If they are both sui juris Churches in union with the Pope, then of course, there is, strictly speaking, no Canonical prohibition for receiving Communion.

You did not specify, though, and given you've previous said you were a "Orthodox in union with the Pope" it's a fair question to see if we are talking about a schismatic Orthodox Church when you say Ukrainian. There is a Moscow-tied Ukrainian Orthodox Church. I was assuming that's not what you meant, but it was a possibility, so perhaps part of the discussion to have.

However, if you intended to become a Ukrainian Greek Catholic, then you should have been Chrismated in that rite unless there were some overarching reason, and then it would be something discussed and arranged between the pastors since there are Canonical issues involved.

And I can understand the annoyance of the Ukrainian priest, again, because by being Chrismated in a different rite, he's not really your pastor, and in general we are meant to see out our parish for the Sacraments, unless there is a good reason to go elsewhere.

He may have over-reacted, but since the East can be a bit messy with the plurality of Churches and theology (the Latin West, is a mess and it's supposed to be more uniform!), as I suggested, perhaps he had a bad experience with the Melkites not following some procedure, or not asking important questions or giving necessary instruction, thus frustrating his work, and you just happened to be the punching bag for his annoyance. It does happen.


RE: ??? - Teresa Agrorum - 01-27-2020

This is wonderful news, Newenglandsun. Set your sights on Heaven and don't look back.

I'll admit the situation is a bit strange with your Ukrainian pastor. It'd be great if he grasped your situation--maybe he will in the future. Not sure why he feels the need to examine you further--if you are comfortable talking with him, why not ask? At least he's conscientious about giving the Blessed Sacrament and that can't be a bad thing. I wouldn't write him off yet--this may be nothing more than a misunderstanding. Pray for him.


RE: ??? - jovan66102 - 01-27-2020

(01-27-2020, 02:17 AM)Teresa Agrorum Wrote: I'll admit the situation is a bit strange with your Ukrainian pastor.

The problem is that, canonically, he's probably no longer NES's Pastor. NES was chrismated in the Melkite Rite, he now belongs to the Melkite Rite, and there is a Melkite Parish available.
Of course, the Melkite Pastor should have explained all this before the chrismation.