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Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - Printable Version

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Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - LionHippo - 05-10-2020

These processes [women in ordained ministry, allowance of homosexual unions and relations, powers of laity] must be taken very seriously as expressions of the ‘sensus fidelium.’ If this does not happen, matters could proceed to a division from the outside of the Catholic Church, which can already be glimpsed on the inside.”

“In theological research we do not agree on how binding is the affirmation in the apostolic letter ‘Ordinatio sacerdotalis’ of Pope John Paul II, acccording to which the exclusion of women from the sacramental ministry must be ‘definitive tenendam,’ or a decision ‘to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.’ [...] In this regard, it is necessary to consider the fundamental theme of the development of dogmas [...] and also to evaluate what theological importance is held by the perception of the non-reception of an opinion of the magisterium among the people of God.”

“A further development of the ministry of proclamation could lead to entrusting women and men employees or volunteers with the task of preaching, baptism, assistance with marriage, blessing the sick, and funerals. This is already happening in many dioceses.”

“Questions about the appropriateness of a doctrinal decision in the context of the universal Church must be separated from the question of principle on the theological legitimacy of the argument. What must be justified is not the admission of women to the ordained sacramental ministry, but their exclusion.”

“Women must participate in appreciable numbers in the consultations and decisions of the assemblies of bishops worldwide, at least with the right to vote.”

“In recent times there have been the decisions of the associations of Catholic women in Germany (KFD and KDFB), as well as of the Central Committee of German Catholics (ZDK), in which on the basis of theological arguments there is highlighted the need for women's participation in all ordained ministries. These decisions and their justifications should be evaluated and appraised on the synodal journey and made part of an open and fruitful synodal dialogue with the universal Church and the papal magisterium. As Pope Francis points out, it is a matter of exercising together the ‘sentire cum ecclesia,’ listening to the true requests of the communion of Christian faith.”


RE: Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - SeekerofChrist - 05-10-2020

The typical modernist nonsense.  I wonder, though, where do these quotes come from?  Are these comments made by bishops or priests?  German "theologians"?  Comments made by the laity?  A mix?


RE: Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - LionHippo - 05-10-2020

Apparently the "working group" has released four documents, and these quotes were drawn from those: http://magister.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/2020/05/06/sex-women-power-the-three-challenges-germany-is-issuing-to-the-church/?refresh_ce

It is so textbook modernist to be laughable. But they always try to dress these statements up in emotional / intellectual sounding language to make them sound as if their motives are genuine, rather than just attempts to undermine and change the Church.


RE: Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - Teresa Agrorum - 05-11-2020

Quote:If this does not happen, matters could proceed to a division from the outside of the Catholic Church, which can already be glimpsed on the inside.

Jeepers, an old-fashioned threat.

Quote:In theological research we do not agree on how binding is the affirmation in the apostolic letter ‘Ordinatio sacerdotalis’...

Give them the Spartan Option: We agree that you do not agree. Now go away.


RE: Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - SeekerofChrist - 05-11-2020

I can't help but feel a schism is brewing in Germany.  But perhaps they'll end up adopting some kind of watered down, modernist doublespeak before this is all over.  Am I wrong to think that a mass exodus of the modernists and heretics in the Church wouldn't be an entirely bad thing?


RE: Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - jovan66102 - 05-11-2020

(05-11-2020, 01:26 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: I can't help but feel a schism is brewing in Germany.  But perhaps they'll end up adopting some kind of watered down, modernist doublespeak before this is all over.  Am I wrong to think that a mass exodus of the modernists and heretics in the Church wouldn't be an entirely bad thing?

My attitude is , 'Don't let the door hit your rear on the way out!' I'm reminded of 50 years or so ago when the Anglicans were still vaguely Christian and they had a super modernist 'bishop' named James Pike. After he had introduced a motion in the House of Bishops to disavow the Nicene Creed, which failed for want of a second, a fellow 'bishop' approached him and said, 'Damn it, Pike! The Reformed Episcopalians had the guts to get out. Why don't you?'


RE: Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - austenbosten - 05-11-2020

(05-11-2020, 05:50 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: My attitude is , 'Don't let the door hit your rear on the way out!' I'm reminded of 50 years or so ago when the Anglicans were still vaguely Christian and they had a super modernist 'bishop' named James Pike. After he had introduced a motion in the House of Bishops to disavow the Nicene Creed, which failed for want of a second, a fellow 'bishop' approached him and said, 'Damn it, Pike! The Reformed Episcopalians had the guts to get out. Why don't you?'

Fun-fact, James Pike was raised Roman Catholic who became agnostic before becoming Episcopalian.

He would have made a wonderful bishop of California.


RE: Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - jovan66102 - 05-11-2020

(05-11-2020, 07:20 PM)austenbosten Wrote: He would have made a wonderful bishop of California.

And that's exactly what he was in the Episcopal Church! LOL!


RE: Catholic Germans offer novel perspective on 'sensus fidelium' - SeekerofChrist - 05-11-2020

I didn't know much about James Pike but got some chills when I read his brief Wikipedia bio, specifically the part about his dead son and Pike's own death: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Pike#The_Other_Side.  I can't help but see something diabolical in it.