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"Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - Printable Version

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"Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - Bataar - 06-28-2021

Letter from Pope Francis Expresses Support for Fr. James Martin’s Controversial ‘LGBT’ Ministry| National Catholic Register (ncregister.com)


RE: "Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - jovan66102 - 06-28-2021

If you're going to put the word Pope in scare quotes, you probably should be posting in the sedevacantist subforum. From the Rules:
Quote:When speaking about the current Holy Father or any previous Pope, he will be spoken of respectfully. In this regard, outside of the "Diocesan vs SSPX vs Sedecavantism vs Novus Ordo" sub-forum, sedevacantists are to post with the premise that the acclaimed Pope is the true Pope.



RE: "Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - choosetowitness - 06-28-2021

By the Grace of God, my family has maintained being part of the One, True Catholic Church for many generations and centuries. That occurs with their obedience and love for the Holy Father. I'm going to stick with that, no matter what.


RE: "Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - Clare Brigid - 06-28-2021

This is very disappointing.  Although I agree that the Gospel requires the Church to reach out to the marginalized, Fr. Martin is leading people to hell.

Pope Francis should instead support Courage, an apostolate that helps same-sex attracted Catholics to live in accordance with the teaching of the Church.


RE: "Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - Sword of St. Michael - 06-29-2021

(06-28-2021, 06:37 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: This is very disappointing.  Although I agree that the Gospel requires the Church to reach out to the marginalized, Fr. Martin is leading people to hell.

Pope Francis should instead support Courage, an apostolate that helps same-sex attracted Catholics to live in accordance with the teaching of the Church.

I fully agree with you, I doubt though he will. Courage shows that authentic Catholic approach to sin, accept the person, recognize the sin, and lead them away from it.

What is peddled today from the Vatican on down is 'accompaniment', walking with the person in sin, accepting both sinner and sin. To support courage would be to go against alot that that has happened of late. It would be to declare something is actually sinful, and that thing is praised throughout most of the world. It would highlight that the church is infact at war with society, and there are evils that need to be resisted that society pushes, putting in question the coziness the vatican has had with society and governments of late. It would also through alot of bishops and priests into a vulnerable state, with large numbers of them performing or accepting gay masses, gay rallies, gay pride, as it shows they would be acting counter to courage and the pope.

Alot of dominoes will fall with that one push, and its why i doubt the vatican will do anything about homosexuality. They withdrew their defense of catholic schools, churchs etc in italy already, and have neglected to chastise any diocese or nation that pushes this agenda (specifically looking at jimmy martin, the germans etc). I highly doubt they will do anything with the german's blessing their unions even, as it would have the same effect as above.


RE: "Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - ChristusVincit - 06-29-2021

If Benedict is Pope, there's no rule violation in writing "Pope" Francis.


RE: "Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - LionHippo - 06-29-2021

(06-29-2021, 10:45 PM)ChristusVincit Wrote: If Benedict is Pope

But, he's not.


RE: "Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - jovan66102 - 06-29-2021

(06-29-2021, 10:45 PM)ChristusVincit Wrote: If Benedict is Pope, there's no rule violation in writing "Pope" Francis.

And that is exactly why it is a violation. Note the rule, 'In this regard, outside of the "Diocesan vs SSPX vs Sedecavantism vs Novus Ordo" sub-forum, sedevacantists are to post with the premise that the acclaimed Pope is the true Pope'. No one with a grasp of reality doubts that Francis is the 'acclaimed Pope'. At the time of his election, were any voices raised against him? Did anyone, at the time, claim that Benedict's abdication was invalid? I certainly don't recall any. In fact, the entire Church acclaimed Francis as Pope, just as 99.9999999....% of Catholics do today.

That rule now applies now also to Benevacantism and the subforum title has been changed to 
Sedevacantism, Benevacantism, Etc., and is why Vox moved this thread.



RE: "Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - LionHippo - 06-29-2021

Absolute denial of Francis as pope and adamantly refusing to accept him as the Holy Father ends in only one place - outside the Church, detached from the sacraments and on the road to being an isolated, spiritually empty former member of the Church. I'm not sure what can be a more tragic existence for someone professing to be Catholic. What is the sustenance for a Sede? It is living in a state of perpetual denial of the indefectibility of the Church, and waiting for some magical conclave to form and somehow elect the "real" pope? This is nothing more than Protestant rapture theology wrapped in Catholic dressing, but instead of waiting to be snatched up to heaven it's waiting for a pope acceptable to sedes.

Or is it constantly thinking one is fighting for a restoration of the Church of their own vision, their own terms? Ha! Sede is the easy way out. Church Militant means fighting for the Church WITHIN and as a member of the Church, not scooting out because it's too tough and frustrating to pray and then rejoining when everything is to your liking. That's just ... weak. It's sad to say, because I think this forum has lost some formerly active members and good people who have gone that route. But that's the truth. It's putting one's own pride above the Lord's promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. It's a form of gnosticism, hiding out in renegade chapels thinking that the truth exists only there.

Why is this line of thinking even coddled in a sub forum? As fast as the beauty of the Latin Mass will attract some people, the sour, toxic and rebellious attitudes of a boastful and prideful minority of Trads will chase those people out. Let them join the Cathinfo forum where all sorts of conspiracies run rampant. Because the denial of the Pope leads to one inevitable, miserable conclusion - putting oneself outside the Church.


RE: "Pope" Francis endorses Fr. Martin's LGBT ministry - jack89 - 06-30-2021

(06-29-2021, 11:37 PM)LionHippo Wrote: Because the denial of the Pope leads to one inevitable, miserable conclusion - putting oneself outside the Church.

You are correct.  Since we're supposed to obey "the lawful pastors of the Church, particularly the Roman Pontiff", then anything the Pope teaches, promotes, or even suggests in passing should be obeyed. 

You can play mental gymnastics and say that the Pope can't change the unchanging teachings of the Church, but that's precisely what's happened, and not just with Pope Francis.  His actions have me wondering how many informal incremental changes have become doctrine over the years, despite previous contradictory teachings.  

If I'm to follow the teachings of Pope Saint Pius X (and I should, right?), then I should be doing what the Pope says.  After  all, I'm suppose to obey him.  I'm not a priest or a theologian, so who am I to question him?  I hear that from a lot of Catholics, and it doesn't ring true in my ears.  So what to do?  If the pope approves of and is promoting Fr. Martin's pro LGBT agenda, I should follow suit, right?

I usually attend Mass at my ICKSP parish, but occasionally go to the much closer NO church if I can't make the hour plus drive.  I have to try really hard to convince myself that they're both part of the same Catholic Church.  Not just with the liturgy, but with homilies and the behaviour of parishioners.  

It's a catch-22 that I don't have an answer for.