Michael Voris comes out with his past sins....(Too much info)
(04-29-2016, 07:02 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: I never much cared for the Vortex, but poor Michael. It sounds like the Lord is allowing for the pruning of his soul. I hope he grows back stronger and better than ever!

THAT is the sort of attitude that characterizes FE, and that I pray continues to characterize FE -- not the sort of vitriol exhibited by "TrueCharity" and the "Greg" person she quoted!

A few verses for any "toxic trads" reading over our shoulders, people who'd condemn Mr. Voris or slur his apostolate because of repented-for sins (or even present-day sins he may be struggling to overcome, as long as he preaches the Truth, pure Catholic teaching with no excuses for anything he might struggle with). And, mind you, I disagree with Mr. Voris's take on the SSPX, and with his view of respectful criticism of the Holy Father. My emphasis in bold:

Quote:
Matthew 23:23-28
Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and have left the weightier things of the law; judgment, and mercy, and faith. These things you ought to have done, and not to leave those undone.  Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you make clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but within you are full of rapine and uncleanness. Thou blind Pharisee, first make clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, that the outside may become clean.  Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful, but within are full of dead men' s bones, and of all filthiness. So you also outwardly indeed appear to men just; but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican.  I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess.  And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O God, be merciful to me a sinner. I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.

Gospel according to St. John 8:1-11
And Jesus went unto mount Olivet.  And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him, and sitting down he taught them.  And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst,  And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou? And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.  And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee? Who said: No man, Lord.  And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.

I John 4:16-21
And we have known, and have believed the charity, which God hath to us. God is charity: and he that abideth in charity, abideth in God, and God in him. In this is the charity of God perfected with us, that we may have confidence in the day of judgment: because as he is, we also are in this world. Fear is not in charity: but perfect charity casteth out fear, because fear hath pain. And he that feareth, is not perfected in charity. Let us therefore love God, because God first hath loved us. If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not? And this commandment we have from God, that he, who loveth God, love also his brother.

Matthew 22:34-40
But the Pharisees hearing that he had silenced the Sadducees, came together: And one of them, a doctor of the law, asking him, tempting him: Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

I Corinthians 13:1-8 "If I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.  And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.  And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.  Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;  rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth;  beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.  Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void, or tongues shall cease, or knowledge shall be destroyed."

To those in this thread who were hurt by "TrueCharity's" words and/or who think that THAT sort of nastiness is what FE:Tradition is about and want nothing to do with it, STOP. Please stop, and don't let the words of an obvious "toxic trad" turn you away from Christ and His Church. Neither let it all keep you away from this forum or make you think that that sort of nonsense is what this forum is "like." It most certainly is not. "TrueCharity" has been banned, and if you allow people like her to run you off, then she and her ilk will have won. "Toxic-traddism" will have won. And there will be no forum like the FishEaters's forum, and what I want FishEaters's forum to become (more of the same but even better, minus the "toxic" types), on the internet.

STAY and WIN.

I am soooooo glad that almost all of you Fishies out there "get" what I want FishEaters to be, that you "get" what traditional Catholicism truly is -- the most beautiful, perfect way of worshiping God, handed down to us over thousands of years, and in need of preservation, restoration, and protection from those who use Tradition as a refuge from anomie, an escape from the (understandable) fear of what's happening in our world, and who use defense mechanisms, scapegoating, and what's in essence "gang-banging" to get through the night and to feel good about themselves. I want NONE of that here. Here, I want the peace, joy, and charity of Christ to prevail -- all coupled with good conversation about the hideous state of the human element of the Church, ordinate kvetching, respectful criticism when necessary, community, friendship, and fun. Don't let others ruin all that for us :)

Reply
Everything Vox said here is so very true!

Vox and the fishies brought Pilgrim and I into tradition.  We attended our first Latin Mass thanks to friends here.  We thought that such a beautiful and vibrant faith was impossible in the modern world.  They were with us as we struggled to adopt our kiddos.  When I was making the rocky transition from 1 teenager who could have raised herself to 3 little wild children, they held my hands (metaphorically) and comforted me.  FishEaters is a special place.  It can be a wonderful space for sharing our struggles and strengthening our faith.  In my experience, that's the best of what this forum can be. 

Please don't walk away.  Understand that the internet can bring out the worst in people.  We trads are spread so far apart that we need a place like this is bring us together.
Reply
edited: never mind.
Reply
(04-29-2016, 07:48 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: Everything Vox said here is so very true!

Vox and the fishies brought Pilgrim and I into tradition.  We attended our first Latin Mass thanks to friends here.  We thought that such a beautiful and vibrant faith was impossible in the modern world.  They were with us as we struggled to adopt our kiddos.  When I was making the rocky transition from 1 teenager who could have raised herself to 3 little wild children, they held my hands (metaphorically) and comforted me.  FishEaters is a special place.  It can be a wonderful space for sharing our struggles and strengthening our faith.  In my experience, that's the best of what this forum can be. 

Please don't walk away.  Understand that the internet can bring out the worst in people.  We trads are spread so far apart that we need a place like this is bring us together.

Oh, my gosh -- really? It was FishEaters that brought you and Pilgrim to Tradition??? I am so -- humbled, and so HAPPY to know this! THANK YOU for relating that to me! Hearing things like this absolutely makes my day! Yaaaaaay!
Reply
(04-29-2016, 08:02 PM)Share Love Wrote: I just have a hard time being around bad attitudes. I left other forums because I either found them full of toxic trads or dissenters who, in my opinion, were given too much reign to dissent. That sort of thing can be a bad influence on people with either weak faith or a foundation that hasn't been properly laid yet, so to speak. Being ignored (as I believe I was on this thread) doesn't sit well with me, nor does biting sarcasm or rudeness.

I'll stick around. I just need to relax a bit.

A hard time being around bad attitudes? You and me both, sistah! I try to keep that "toxic" stuff away from here because I can't stand it. People who are like that really don't seem to get that they are not reflecting authentic traditional Catholicism -- and that they drive souls away from Christ, His Church, and Tradition. In other words, their posts defeat the very purpose of this place! It drives me nuts that they play so fast and loose with souls just to make themselves feel superior. And it drives me nuts twice because they harm my work -- work I've poured years and years of energy into. And it drives me nuts thrice to know that their presence once drove off the exact sort of people I want posting here, leaving only them until I decided that I needed to "clean house" and not have the sort of "all trads welcome" approach I wished I could have had earlier on. (And even just ONE poster can cause that sort of harm! Just ONE. Witness this thread!) But some "trads" -- thank God, a relatively small sub-set -- are people I just can't have posting here. They harm souls and they have the power to kill this "apostolate."

The toxic types are just that:  toxic. They're uncharitable, nasty, rude, "holier-than-thou," judgmental -- and they wrap it all in a cloak of alleged "sanctity" that makes them the worst sort of hypocrites.

We've got to outnumber them and keep FE as a refuge for traditional Catholics who have a clue about charity, who've had conversions of the heart in addition to the head.
Reply
(04-29-2016, 08:37 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(04-29-2016, 07:48 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: Everything Vox said here is so very true!

Vox and the fishies brought Pilgrim and I into tradition.  We attended our first Latin Mass thanks to friends here.  We thought that such a beautiful and vibrant faith was impossible in the modern world.  They were with us as we struggled to adopt our kiddos.  When I was making the rocky transition from 1 teenager who could have raised herself to 3 little wild children, they held my hands (metaphorically) and comforted me.  FishEaters is a special place.  It can be a wonderful space for sharing our struggles and strengthening our faith.  In my experience, that's the best of what this forum can be. 

Please don't walk away.  Understand that the internet can bring out the worst in people.  We trads are spread so far apart that we need a place like this is bring us together.

Oh, my gosh -- really? It was FishEaters that brought you and Pilgrim to Tradition??? I am so -- humbled, and so HAPPY to know this! THANK YOU for relating that to me! Hearing things like this absolutely makes my day! Yaaaaaay!

Yes, Vox it was your forum and site!  I joined the forum in 2009 I think.  I was teaching and we were working on the adoption.  Pilgrim and I were struggling with how to make our faith less intellectual and more vibrant.  We wanted to find a way to share a uniquely Catholic culture with our children and had zero reference point.  Your website was a tremendous help.  Magdalena suggested we attend a Latin mass near us both.  She met us after mass when I gave her a description of the skirt I was going to wear.  I attended (struggling to read the missal and pay attention) and realized that I knew a lot of the people who attended and had taught quite a few of their children.  It was like stepping into a family.  I realized that I understood the liturgy far better than I did anything in the NO in the US.  I had attended one Latin mass when I was living in Paris as a teenager but didn't realize that there were other opportunities.  I was a medieval scholar and couldn't stand modern American church architecture.  Video screens were a complete distraction at mass.  Our local parish offered little in terms of real depth.  They didn't have pews but chairs without kneelers.  Nobody knelt at the consecration.  Pilgrim was struggling with the NO too.  We talked away from the NO and never looked back; we attend the NO only when we can't find a Latin mass that will work for our children's schedules.  I think it was my second or third mass before I realized that I really could just listen and understand the mass.  I have studied a fair bit of Latin (I even taught it) but never really listened to it.  I thought my dad was crazy when he told me to just listen and it would "click."  But he was right.  :) 

It turns out that quite a few friends I know IRL were on the forum and, while they are not here anymore, we still see each other from time to time.  Nobody said anything about FishEaters or the Latin mass until we started attending the local TLM.  Then we became part of what seemed like a "secret club."  It turns out that traddies don't share their faith terribly well.  I'm not kidding when I say that we know over half of the TLM attendees and never knew the mass was even going on. 

So, thank you for this site and this forum.  It made a huge difference for Pilgrim and I.  Most of all for me because when I stayed home to finish up the adoption and take care of the kids, I was really cut off from everything I had known.  I had never stayed at home; heck, I was a latch key kid.  There were no moms like me in my neighborhood (there still aren't).  I had nobody to talk to much of the time.  My friends here were what got me through a really rough transition.
Reply
Someday, when I have some time and a clearer head, I will write my thoughts down, and may share them here. But, for now, my prayers are for those souls, whom like myself, were lost and believed no one cared. Christ our Lord cared. Enough to die on the Cross for me. AND for you all. ALL of you. EVEN THE TOXIC TRADS. And that, that is the struggle. To Trust, and believe when those are the first thing's taken, THAT my friends is a battle Royale. Stay in the game folks, that is all I can say. Our Lady of Fatima, Oremus...
Reply
(04-29-2016, 10:34 PM)GrottoAl Wrote: Someday, when I have some time and a clearer head, I will write my thoughts down, and may share them here. But, for now, my prayers are for those souls, whom like myself, were lost and believed no one cared. Christ our Lord cared. Enough to die on the Cross for me. AND for you all. ALL of you. EVEN THE TOXIC TRADS. And that, that is the struggle. To Trust, and believe when those are the first thing's taken, THAT my friends is a battle Royale. Stay in the game folks, that is all I can say. Our Lady of Fatima, Oremus...

The Parable of the Two Debtors:



Luke 7:41-43

A certain creditor had two debtors, the one who owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And whereas they had not wherewith to pay, he forgave them both. Which therefore of the two loveth him most? Simon answering, said: I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And he said to him: Thou hast judged rightly.



To anyone reading this over our shoulders, there is nothing -- not a single thing -- you could have done to make Jesus unwilling to forgive you. NOTHING. Murder, sex outside of marriage, watching porn, abortion, lying, engaging in homosexual acts, rape, stealing, cheating, blasphemy, sacrilege --- you can be cleansed of any and all of these things by being contrite and going to Confession, after which you'll feel like a trillion bucks.

Some of our great Saints committed some serious sins before their conversions. The most obvious is the example of St. Paul, whom I wrote about earlier:  he had been a murderer of Christians before he came to know Christ. And he repented, and went on to become the man most responsible for spreading the Gospel, and is now a Saint in Heaven, sharing in the Divine Nature!

If there is anything in your past, or present, that you want forgiveness for, go get it. It's alllllll yours, a free gift from the One Who loved you enough to die for your sins.

Once you are forgiven, you're a "new person." You're as pure as snow. Let nothing come in between you and Christ, most especially not your sins, which He died to take onto Himself!

GrottoAl, I'm glad you're here, and I'd love to hear your story :)
Reply
(04-29-2016, 08:49 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(04-29-2016, 08:02 PM)Share Love Wrote: I just have a hard time being around bad attitudes. I left other forums because I either found them full of toxic trads or dissenters who, in my opinion, were given too much reign to dissent. That sort of thing can be a bad influence on people with either weak faith or a foundation that hasn't been properly laid yet, so to speak. Being ignored (as I believe I was on this thread) doesn't sit well with me, nor does biting sarcasm or rudeness.

I'll stick around. I just need to relax a bit.
The toxic types are just that:  toxic. They're uncharitable, nasty, rude, "holier-than-thou," judgmental -- and they wrap it all in a cloak of alleged "sanctity" that makes them the worst sort of hypocrites.
"What makes people hypocrites? They disguise themselves, they disguise themselves as good people: they make themselves up like little holy cards, looking up at heaven as they pray, making sure they are seen—they believe they are more righteous than others, they despise others." - Pope Francis
Reply
(04-30-2016, 01:42 AM)Share Love Wrote:
(04-29-2016, 08:49 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(04-29-2016, 08:02 PM)Share Love Wrote: I just have a hard time being around bad attitudes. I left other forums because I either found them full of toxic trads or dissenters who, in my opinion, were given too much reign to dissent. That sort of thing can be a bad influence on people with either weak faith or a foundation that hasn't been properly laid yet, so to speak. Being ignored (as I believe I was on this thread) doesn't sit well with me, nor does biting sarcasm or rudeness.

I'll stick around. I just need to relax a bit.
The toxic types are just that:  toxic. They're uncharitable, nasty, rude, "holier-than-thou," judgmental -- and they wrap it all in a cloak of alleged "sanctity" that makes them the worst sort of hypocrites.
"What makes people hypocrites? They disguise themselves, they disguise themselves as good people: they make themselves up like little holy cards, looking up at heaven as they pray, making sure they are seen—they believe they are more righteous than others, they despise others." - Pope Francis

Wow. I actually get to agree with Pope Francis for once! LOL (where's the Hell Weather Channel? How cold is it down there right now? LOL) (Note: I am just kidding. Obviously, I agree with him a lot. But he also says a LOT to drive me insane.)

Anyway, yup, he nailed it on that one.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)