To all forum members: Criticism of priests
#51
LaRoza Wrote:
Slayer Wrote:LaRoza, how do you reconcile with what you said with what Jesus said?:

"15. But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.
16 . And if he will not hear thee, join with thee besides, one or two: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand.
17. And if he will not hear them, tell the Church. And if he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the Publican." (Matthew 18:15-17)

I did not say I took the quotations I posted as dogma, only the point.

I could remove them entirely from the post and still not lose meaning. Those rules do not conflict with what I said.


Miserere Nobis Wrote:"But when Cephas was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed." Even St. Paul criticized St. Peter, the first pope!

I think many are missing the point that LaRoza is making (and I sincerely hope I'm not misrepresenting it).  His <b>main</b> point is that our primary response and responsibility is to pray for these misguided, live the authentic faith out in our lives, irregardless of the turmoil going on around us, and to follow the processes provided by the Church ~ rather than engaging in gossip, slander, private interpretation of events, and inciting disrespect for those in Holy Orders.

LaRoza has never suggested one be indifferent to abuses, bad teaching, or heresy.  When those situations arise, one prays, and lives and teaches the truth, and then one may approrpriatley follow the procedures the Church provides.

If one is having issues with a priest in their parish, one prays, and then they can go to the Bishop if they feel called to.  If the Bishop is the problem, one prays, and then they could contact the Papal Nuncio, neighboring Bishops, or the Vatican, if they feel called to.  If the actions of another Bishop causes one concern, one prays (and otherwise, I don't see how what is happening in another diocese is an individual lay persons concern, other than as a matter of prayer).

His most important point, I believe, is that the first and most important response is always prayer (and I would add, proper discernment about the situation that causes concern), and that whatever one says or does should never be perceived as disrespect for those in Holy Orders.


Regarding the text from St. Matthew - it begins with personal interaction, then proceeds to having the Church deal with the issue, which I presume, in the Catholic context, means the hierarchy, and not a bunch of random lay folk.

St. Paul's rebuke of St. Peter is a popular scripture, oft cited, here at the Fisheaters forum, to justify all manner of raking the Church, and certain leaders of it, over the coals (and such private interpretations of scripture seems a very protestant approach, IMHO).  But, again, this text represents two hierarchs dealing with an issue in the Church, according to their calling and station - and I don't see how, from a Catholic context, it can be used to empower a mob response from the laity.

I would suggest the prayer from the St. Gertrude The Great bulletin that I cited in post #26 of this thread.

<b>Prayer for Lapsed Priests
</b>Divine Saviour Jesus Christ, You are the good shepherd who gives His life for His sheep.  Oh, be in a very special way the Good Shepherd of those poor lost priests who are also appointed by You to be leaders of Your people, but who have broken the oath of their holy ordination and have become unfaithful to their exalted calling.

Bestow upon those poorest of the poor the very fullness of that pastoral solicitude with which You so faithfully seek the sheep that are lost!  Touch their hearts with that irresistible ray of grace which emanates from Your all-merciful love!  Enlighten their minds and strengthen their wills, that they may turn away from all sin and error and come back to Your holy altar and to your people. Amen.

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To all forum members: Criticism of priests - by moneil - 02-13-2009, 12:56 PM



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