Licit to attend weekly NO Masses with abuses?
(04-25-2009, 10:59 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Why is your certitude better than mine?  I have certitude that the NO is valid, I don't know what else to tell you.

And don't be disingenuous.  If the NO is invalid as you claim, as are the sacraments attached to it, then there is no Pope and very few bishops and priests left.  That is where your argument leads.  Or perhaps you'd like to explain exactly what you mean by the "true Mass and true sacraments."

There's not one credible theologian in the Church today who agrees with your interpretation of the present crisis in the Church.  And by "credible", I mean just that, not some wing nut with a blog.

The reason being is that my certitude is actually certitude - you however have failed to counter even one of the points i posted, you have consistently ignored them and skipped over them, your 'certitude' is based on what? you have only made one argument on disciplinary infallibility, thats it, which I have countered above - and you didnt respond to that either.

I dont claim the Novus Ordo is invalid  - i can claim it is debatable whether it is valid i have repeatedly stated that it is doubtfully valid in certain cases, i said nothing about it being universally invalid. What i have repeatedly stated - is that there is a lot of debate about its validity!! Dei Defectibus is the main driver behind that side of the argument, and i suppose the quote you provided from the catechism of  St.Pius X and the opinion of St.Thomas Aquinas is the other. Again i dont know for sure, what I do know is that there is positive doubt.

If the NO is invalid as you claim, as are the sacraments attached to it, then there is no Pope and very few bishops and priests left

Where have I once said that the other sacraments are invalid let alone doubtfully valid? You are actually resorting to lying and putting words in my mouth? What I mean by the true sacraments are the TRADITIONAL sacraments of the Church - the "received and approved rites" of the Church - what I mean is the sacraments that have been the consolation of all the saints, my goodness can you not understand a basic term like that? You should really retract that comment in charity, i am not a sedevacantist and I do not doubt the validity of the other sacraments if they are done correctly.

Some wing nut with a blog? Argumentum ad hominem again! You clearly have no idea how to debate - as well as being extremely uncharitable. Youre trying to marginalise me by isolating my opinion -despite the fact it is the arguments of the sspx and tons of other traditional Priests.

Now I must say this again to clarify - you have not responded to any of my points -clearly because you are unable to do so, as such you should admit that they are valid points at the very least or point out where they are wrong.
You have consistently resorted to argumentum ad hominem, name calling and attempting to discredit me.

You are not an honest debater and truly it has been frustrating debating with you. I am sorry that we could not debate together in humilty and charity and with a love of truth - you have expressed no interest in doing so and as such i will make this my last reply to you unless you address and attempt to counter ALL the points I made.
God Bless you and may you live a long and happy and holy life.

Please do not respond with name calling or attempts to sideline me -address the points or dont reply


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Re: Licit to attend weekly NO Masses with abuses? - by tradmaverick - 04-26-2009, 12:15 PM

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