Bp W Column, 5.30.09
#94
:laughing:  What fun! The Conciliarist and the Sedevacantist hold each other's hands to present a false front of error by excess.

This problem is described and the answer given in the SiSiNoNo article linked below that was previously linked to in this thread. Our Conciliarist friend and our Sedevacantist friend should both take the trouble to digest it.
Clear Ideas on the Pope's Infallible Magisterium
http://www.sspxasia.com/Documents/SiSiNo...terium.htm
Quote:What worries Catholics most in the current crisis in the Church is precisely the "problem of the Pope." We need very clear ideas on this question. We must avoid shipwreck to the right and to the left, either by the spirit of rebellion or, on the other hand, by an inappropriate and servile obedience. The serious error which is behind many current disasters is the belief that the "Authentic Magisterium" is nothing other than the "Ordinary Magisterium," ...

... The error by excess actually eliminates the Ordinary Non-Infallible or "Authentic" Magisterium and inevitably leads either to Sedevacantism or to servile obedience.

Quote:Posted by newschoolman
Prudential error has absolutely nothing to do with material heresy or errors in the order of faith and morals.
That is strange. Van Noort, whom you previously appealed to, in his Dogmatic Theology states that: "All theologians admit that the pope can make a mistake in matters of faith or morals when so speaking: either by proposing a false opinion in a matter not yet defined, or by innocently differing from some doctrine already defined." The possibility of the error in faith or morals is, of course, limited to the Authentic Magisterium.

Quote:Posted by lamentabili sane
A Catholic who holds a material heresy without pertinacity is NOT a heretic at all and therefore NOT excommunicated. You are confusing this "distinction" and claiming that a Catholic can be a material heretic when he is just mistaken or ignorant.
That is also strange. In an earlier post you stated that  "What is not certain is whether a pope can be a heretic as a private person." In other words you previously admitted that a pope could possibly be a material heretic when infallibility was not engaged.

Quote:Posted by lamentibili sane
Infallibility is a charism that protects the pope from making errors in faith and morals.
Infallibility only applies when the pope, as head of the universal Church, solemnly defines a dogma concerning faith or morals or asserts what is already infallible Catholic doctrine. Infallibility is not engaged should he promote beliefs that are novel or contradictory to the Catholic Faith. Such are examples of personal error that are necessarily confined to his Authentic Magisterium.



edited to add link.
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Messages In This Thread
Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by dedalus28 - 05-30-2009, 10:54 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 11:08 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by didishroom - 05-30-2009, 11:23 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 11:29 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by IrishCowboy - 05-30-2009, 11:44 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 12:03 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by Gerard - 05-30-2009, 12:34 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 05-30-2009, 12:38 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 12:45 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by dedalus28 - 05-30-2009, 12:54 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 01:04 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by didishroom - 05-30-2009, 01:12 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by Joan of Arc - 05-30-2009, 01:17 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 01:27 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by IrishCowboy - 05-30-2009, 01:28 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 03:59 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by didishroom - 05-30-2009, 04:07 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 04:24 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 04:35 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 04:44 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 04:58 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 05-30-2009, 05:03 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 05:03 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 05:06 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 05:11 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 05:28 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 05:30 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by Historian - 05-30-2009, 05:46 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by Historian - 05-30-2009, 05:46 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 05:47 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by Historian - 05-30-2009, 05:48 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 05:52 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by Historian - 05-30-2009, 05:54 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 06:02 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by didishroom - 05-30-2009, 06:27 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by finegan - 05-30-2009, 06:50 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by kclaib - 05-30-2009, 06:55 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 07:05 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 07:08 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 07:09 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by Tiny - 05-30-2009, 07:49 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by IrishCowboy - 05-30-2009, 07:53 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 08:36 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 09:19 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 05-30-2009, 09:19 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 09:27 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 09:30 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by jovan66102 - 05-30-2009, 09:31 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 05-30-2009, 09:33 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 09:37 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by didishroom - 05-30-2009, 09:37 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 09:42 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 09:44 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 09:45 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 09:48 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 09:48 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 09:52 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09s - by didishroom - 05-30-2009, 09:59 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09s - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 10:04 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 10:08 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09s - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 10:08 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 10:12 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by SaintRafael - 05-30-2009, 10:16 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-30-2009, 10:23 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by Admiratio - 05-31-2009, 03:26 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 05-31-2009, 11:34 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 05-31-2009, 01:45 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 05-31-2009, 01:49 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 05-31-2009, 01:56 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-01-2009, 04:25 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-01-2009, 07:19 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-01-2009, 07:24 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-01-2009, 07:28 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-01-2009, 08:54 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-01-2009, 09:14 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-01-2009, 09:22 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-01-2009, 09:26 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-01-2009, 09:48 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by Historian - 06-01-2009, 10:24 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-01-2009, 10:53 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-01-2009, 10:56 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-01-2009, 10:59 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 09:06 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-02-2009, 09:28 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 09:52 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 10:21 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 11:00 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 11:15 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 11:22 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 12:46 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 01:20 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-02-2009, 01:27 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 01:28 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 01:48 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 01:52 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 02:00 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 02:03 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 02:10 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 02:10 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 02:36 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 02:48 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 02:53 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 02:56 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 03:10 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 03:10 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 03:14 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 03:18 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 03:31 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 03:49 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 04:51 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 05:01 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 05:32 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 06:10 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 06:17 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 06:20 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-02-2009, 06:43 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 06:54 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 07:07 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 07:15 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 07:17 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 07:22 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 07:45 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 08:58 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-02-2009, 09:38 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-02-2009, 11:00 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-03-2009, 10:14 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-03-2009, 10:52 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-03-2009, 11:11 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-03-2009, 07:26 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by dedalus28 - 06-03-2009, 07:27 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-03-2009, 09:47 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-04-2009, 01:54 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-04-2009, 07:08 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-04-2009, 09:11 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-04-2009, 09:49 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by newschoolman - 06-04-2009, 11:55 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by GodFirst - 06-05-2009, 12:43 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-05-2009, 07:57 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-05-2009, 05:21 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-05-2009, 10:25 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-06-2009, 07:53 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-06-2009, 09:05 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-08-2009, 02:40 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by glgas - 06-08-2009, 03:01 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-08-2009, 05:19 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-09-2009, 12:24 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-09-2009, 10:35 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-09-2009, 11:37 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-09-2009, 11:58 AM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by PilgrimageofGrace - 06-09-2009, 02:50 PM
Re: Bp W Column, 5.30.09 - by lamentabili sane - 06-09-2009, 06:41 PM



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