Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS?
(09-01-2009, 11:42 PM)James02 Wrote: Your original quote:
Quote: Actually, it says that he was sanctified. He was justified. He had the supernatural virtues of Faith and Charity before sacramental Baptism.

I can not find "it" in Book 4, chpt. 24.  I asked for you to provide me with the reference.  You can not provide it because Augustine never said Cornelius was justified before baptism.

Now look again at the Augustine quote.  He switches, saying Abraham was "justified", then going to Cornelius was "sanctified".  That is a significant difference.  Furthermore he says that the sacrament of regeneration was carried out, HOW?, by the laver of baptism.

He didn't say that "and baptism was added later".  He said "the sacrament of regeneration" was added "in the laver of baptism".  Regeneration and Justification are synonyms.  Baptism "regenerated" Cornelius, which is my point.  The scripture passage also confirms this.

Furthermore, this section by Augustine is arguing for the effectiveness of infant baptism.  So the context is against you as well.


These arguments are disengenous.  It's obvious from context that Augustine is equating the process of salvation between Abraham and Cornelius.  And the magisterium confirms the concept by quoting Augustine himself:

Innocent III Wrote:To your inquiry we respond thus: We assert without hesitation (on the authority of the holy Fathers Augustine and Ambrose) that the priest whom you indicated (in your letter) had died without the water of baptism, because he persevered in the faith of Holy Mother the Church and in the confession of the name of Christ, was freed from original sin and attained the joy of the heavenly fatherland. Read (brother) in the eighth book of Augustine's City of God where among other things it is written, "Baptism is ministered invisibly to one whom not contempt of religion but death excludes." Read again the book also of the blessed Ambrose concerning the death of Valentinian where he says the same thing. Therefore, to questions concerning the dead, you should hold the opinions of the learned Fathers, and in your church you should join in prayers and you should have sacrifices offered to God for the priest mentioned. (Denzinger 388)

No word games can hide this fact. 
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Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - by PeterII - 09-02-2009, 07:47 AM



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