Infallible Ecumenical Councils?
#24
(02-19-2010, 09:43 PM)Locke Wrote: I guess I'm confused because as Catholics we have to submit to the doctrines of the Church, which were set forth by the Holy Spirit through men.  Why is that submission good and to submit to the non-dogmatic teachings of priests not OK?

“Submit” is a fairly accurate translation of the “Islam.”  That heresy in the form of a religion got it’s converts through the sword.  Ergo, I prefer not to think that Catholics “submit” to Catholic Church doctrines.  I prefer to think we “obey” Church doctrine. 

“Obedience” is a virtue.  “Submission” is another word for servile obedience, which is a sin.  That is, there is no virtue in submitting to the AUTHORITY of our superiors because they are our superiors.  Rather, there is virtue in submitting to the RATIONALLY authoritative doctrines of our superiors because those doctrines are from God and especially because those doctrines are not to our liking.

How else can we obey God but by disobeying our own preferences?  The prerequisite for practicing the virtue of obedience is a preference to disobey.  The Church, then, can be seen as a mechanism set up by God to provide us with a means of proving our obedience to Him through His Church by choosing His ways over our ways.  This does not require us to submit to a higher power, but to mortify our week selves .

Locke wrote: “When I make a decision to obey my priest I do so with some thought.  It's not like I just blindly follow them.”

I should hope not.  Your thoughtful acceptance of what a priest tells you to do is no different than your thoughtful acceptance of what someone on this board says.  Priests have no charism of infallibility or even teaching authority.  Just look around at the bedlam they spread.

Locke wrote: “There is some small portion that makes me do the more holy thing and when I do that, I think that is the part that God smiles at.  He likes us to act in faith.”

Here is where we disagree.  You doing what a priest tells you to do is no exercise of your faith, nor necessarily a holy act.  You doing what a priest says is only as good or bad an action as the priest.  A bad priest will advise you badly.  A good priest will advise you well.  Why put your faith in the advise of any priest when you know as well as I that you cannot know if said priest is a good or bad one.  None of us know who among us is good or evil.  So let’s not trust each other’s word, but test each other’s word against The Word and against our God-given rational endowments. 

If God is, He is by definition good.  Good, by definition, is rational.  Rational is knowable by our minds and does not require trust or faith.  Ergo, take the advice of your supposedly good priest and run it through the sieve of your cerebral cortex.  If it passes rational muster, obey the truth of what he says, not him.  Sincerely, Albert Cipriani
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Messages In This Thread
Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by albert - 02-12-2010, 03:58 AM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by Walty - 02-12-2010, 04:06 AM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by glgas - 02-12-2010, 08:56 AM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by JonW - 02-12-2010, 02:30 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by Walty - 02-12-2010, 03:52 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by albert - 02-12-2010, 11:55 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by albert - 02-13-2010, 03:02 AM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by glgas - 02-13-2010, 09:22 AM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by Stubborn - 02-13-2010, 11:43 AM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by glgas - 02-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by Stubborn - 02-13-2010, 04:59 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by albert - 02-13-2010, 06:14 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by JamieF - 02-13-2010, 07:12 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by glgas - 02-13-2010, 07:17 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by Stubborn - 02-13-2010, 07:51 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by Walty - 02-13-2010, 09:02 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by albert - 02-16-2010, 06:01 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by albert - 02-16-2010, 06:08 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by JamieF - 02-17-2010, 04:13 AM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by Locke - 02-18-2010, 06:10 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by albert - 02-19-2010, 01:59 AM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by Locke - 02-19-2010, 09:43 PM
Re: Infallible Ecumenical Councils? - by albert - 02-23-2010, 01:41 AM



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