Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada
(01-04-2012, 11:39 PM)Doce Me Wrote:
(01-04-2012, 07:02 AM)Stubborn Wrote:
(01-04-2012, 03:53 AM)Doce Me Wrote: Columb,  such a catechumen would be infused with Sanctifying Grace by God, who Himself baptizes the man, making him a supernatural man, on account of a desire that God knows (and indeed put) in the man's heart.  It is not just  "any old desire", and it must be accompanied by a roadblock to the Sacrament that God knows and permits.

<I'm answering your post a bit at a time, in an order that I find easier to address>
I mean you no disrespect, but this "permitted roadblock" comment completely perverts the doctrine of Divine Providence.

Then the Catechism of the Council of Trent is perverting the doctrine of Divine Providence when it says "should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters". It is speaking of impossibility BEFORE DEATH for adults, as it is does for babies.  If dying in grace and righteousness WITHOUT BAPTISM still sends the man to hell, than what is the point of  the Catechism talking about grace and righteousness at all?  If they don't matter as to salvation, then how is the risk for an adult less than the risk for a baby?

YOU are the ONLY one speaking about death for adults - well, you and BOD supporters overall - because death is never even implied in the Catechism of the Council of Trent's paragraph. Where does the catechism say impossibility BEFORE DEATH?

Answer - NOWHERE!

If you read what is written vs what you want it to say, you will see that the catechism echoes Trent and is in fact NOT rewarding salvation to one unbaptized - it is you who are doing that - please read what is written.

(01-04-2012, 11:39 PM)Doce Me Wrote: Taking your statement  concerning "perverting the doctrine of Divine Providence" to an extreme, God couldn't permit ANYTHING to EVER get in the way of obeying even the letter of any command.  Anyone who misses Mass  really is entirely to blame himself, because God doesn't EVER permit roadblocks or human impossibilities. Why should He?  He's God!   Saying God sometimes permits such things perverts the doctrine of Divine Providence, according to you.

You said that God permitted a road block to the Sacrament - this roadblock is what makes it impossible to receive the actual Sacrament. This road block rewards salvation via the desire for the Sacrament because the roadblock made receiving the Sacrament impossible. THOSE ARE YOUR WORDS.

First off, when God sends us a stumbling or roadblock, He does so to test us, to see if we will remain vigilant in our endevour for salvation or take the wide, easy road. When God sees we remain vigilant, He rewards us that which we seek. So if one sincerely desires the Sacrament, Divine Providence teaches us that person will receive that which he seeks - For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened..............If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him?

Second, if God permits roadblocks to the sacrament so as to reward salvation without the Sacrament, that is a teaching of your own, certainly not a teaching of the Church. FWIW, if God goes through the effort of making it impossible to get the sacrament, then rewards salvation based on a sincere desire - why wouldn't God already provide what is certainly needed ie baptism?

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Re: Baptism of Desire and Theological Principles by Fr. Cekada - by Stubborn - 01-08-2012, 06:16 PM



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