Teachings Contrary to Tradition? Religious Liberty
#1
From Rorate Caeli:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/12...essor.html

Quote:In a response to the article of Mgr. Ocáriz "On adhesion to the Second Vatican Council", published in L'Osservatore Romano, Fr. Jean-Michel Gleize, professor of theology in the International Seminary of Saint Pius X in Écône, Switzerland, and who also took part in the doctrinal discussions between the Holy See and the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX), wrote the following text, published at Courrier de Rome, and made available by DICI shortly before Christmas. We post the excerpt here now for the record of current events.
...

The fact of Vatican II:  new teachings contrary to Tradition

On at least four points, the teachings of the Second Vatican Council are obviously in logical contradiction to the pronouncements of the previous traditional Magisterium, so that it is impossible to interpret them in keeping with the other teachings already contained in the earlier documents of the Church’s Magisterium.  Vatican II has thus broken the unity of the Magisterium, to the same extent to which it has broken the unity of its object.
These four points are as follows.  The doctrine on religious liberty, as it is expressed in no. 2 of the Declaration Dignitatis humanae, contradicts the teachings of Gregory XVI in Mirari vos and of Pius IX in Quanta cura as well as those of Pope Leo XIII in Immortale Dei and those of Pope Pius XI in Quas primas.  The doctrine on the Church, as it is expressed in no. 8 of the Constitution Lumen gentium, contradicts the teachings of Pope Pius XII in Mystici corporis and Humani generis.  The doctrine on ecumenism, as it is expressed in no. 8 of Lumen gentium and no. 3 of the Decree Unitatis redintegratio, contradicts the teachings of Pope Pius IX in propositions 16 and 17 of the Syllabus, those of Leo XIII in Satis cognitum, and those of Pope Pius XI in Mortalium animos.  The doctrine on collegiality, as it is expressed in no. 22 of the Constitution Lumen gentium, including no. 3 of the Nota praevia [Explanatory Note], contradicts the teachings of the First Vatican Council on the uniqueness of the subject of supreme power in the Church, in the Constitution Pastor aeternus.

I just posted a small excerpt from this article because these are the 4 points I'd like to discuss.  I'm sure these points are old news for seasoned trads, but I have not yet had a chance to fully examine and process all of the documents myself. To keep the discussion manageable, I will create a thread each week for 4 weeks so we can take them one at a time.

This first thread will be on the topic of the doctrine on religious liberty. I'll follow up this opening post with the relevant quote from Dignitatis humanae, and will add quotes from the older documents as I read through them.

Some main ideas we might discuss on this first topic:

1) What sort of "external coercion" is the VII document concerned with, and how does immunity from this coexist with the "just public order"?

2) Before VII, what did the Popes envision as the proper relationship between the state and the Church?

3) Is it possible, as some claim, to interpret this conflicting idea in light of Tradition?  Or is it as others claim, an outright contradiction that cannot be reconciled?

I think this will be a very interesting and beneficial study, particularly for people who haven't given these documents a very close reading yet.  But let's keep it civil and field honest questions and answers without accusations of "anti-trad" or "schismatic". ;)  Thank you!
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Teachings Contrary to Tradition? Religious Liberty - by iona_scribe - 02-02-2012, 05:57 PM



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