ORthodox perspective of Traditionalist Catholics
#31
(05-13-2012, 11:05 PM)Silouan Wrote:
(05-13-2012, 10:36 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(05-13-2012, 09:01 PM)Silouan Wrote: "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" - Pope Eugene IV

"For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation." - Pope John Paul II

So which of your infallible pontiffs do you follow on this...

Actually, those two are easy to reconcile.  If you keep reading Cantate Domino of Pope Eugene it says "unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

John Paul II, whether he knew it or not, or was trying to hide it, was describing infused knowledge and a direct, gratuitous gift of God in an effort to gain them entrance into the Church necessarily before death. .  St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that if none are around to instruct someone an Angel of God will show up to instruct them.  Salvation is accessible because direct action by God to give them knowledge and access to the Church is accessible through a special grace and action of God.

Pope Eugene clearly established the parameters.  JPII was not able to cross them even though he wrote something ambiguous that people without  a sacramental understanding or Thomistic knowledge would believe mistakenly was  in opposition to the previous statement. 

You can follow Pope Eugene without difficulty.  You can't follow JPII without Pope Eugene before him and positively be sure of the orthodox understanding.   JPII is actually unnecessary in his explanation of things.  He simply covered non-infallibly an explanation of already infallibly defined matters in a confused manner.  But he didn't actually state anything heretical or bind anyone to his formula or anathematize the Cantate Domino definition. 



Spoken like a true modern Roman Catholic. I spent years on CAF with Catholics explaining to me that various papal statement don't really mean what they say. The funny thing is they would normally come up with the opposite actual meaning from you. 8)

How is Gerard being modern?  He gave a perfectly sensible answer in a succinct manner and you resort to being sarcastic.  What does that say about you?

Regarding CAF, they are mostly 'former' Protestants who went through RCIA with piss poor instruction conducted by an assortment of weird people, heretics, and portly bearded men lacking in masculinity (not to mention authentic Catholic teaching.)  CAF is not even an official organ of the Church in America so who cares what some random confused people/electronic robots are saying?

Silouan, I'm not expecting you to turn 180 degrees now, but between Gerard, CP, and me, you have been given very good answers.  I invite you to sit back, crack open a few Blue Moons and seriously consider what we are providing.  I believe you are earnestly seeking truth- pull back a bit, pray and light will shine.
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Re: ORthodox perspective of Traditionalist Catholics - by kingtheoden - 05-13-2012, 11:19 PM



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