Ottaviani intervention?
#41
(12-31-2012, 08:14 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(12-31-2012, 05:27 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote: This is just the beefed up version of the Sister Lucia argument.

"Sister Lucia accepted it. It must be good." Imagine a "Caiphas thinks Christ is a blasphemer" argument. Oh, what hope do any Jews have to recognize Our Lord if a member of the Sanhedrin and the High Priest, someone who should know the Messiah when He comes, cannot do it. Different things, to be sure, than Vatican II, but the same argument.

A lot of people can fall for things. It could be age, peer pressure, human respect, confusion, false obedience, and so on.

Just like the "Guatemalan Farmer" argument, the "no one objected in 1965" argument, and the newspaper clipping arguments, none of these address the traditional (SSPX or otherwise) criticisms of errors, yes, errors, in the Vatican II documents.

And Bishop Sheen and Padre Pio (who wrote a letter praising Paul VI and Vatican II, and celebrated his last mass in the vernacular facing the people).

I don't know if there's any proof that he said Mass in the vernacular. One thing he never did, though, was say the Novus Ordo Missae of 1969.
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(12-31-2012, 08:14 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: Just because you say there are errors doesn't make it so.

True.
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(12-31-2012, 08:14 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: What's the difference between Jansenists denouncing the Pope for the novelty of Limbo (and declaring it an error) and you? Limbo (at first glance) directly contradicts the writings of Saint Augustine and the teaching of many, many Popes.

Limbo:

"With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and the only remedy available to them is the Sacrament of Baptism by which they are snatched away from the dominion of the devil and adopted as children of God, it admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred for forty or eighty days or any other period of time in accordance with the usage of some people, but it should be conferred as soon as it conveniently can; and if there is imminent danger of death, the child should be baptized straightaway without any delay, even by a lay man or woman in the form of the Church, if there is no priest, as is contained more fully in the decree on the Armenians." (Dz. 696)

"But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains." - De fide, Council of Florence
(12-31-2012, 08:14 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: And the difference between the High Priest and the Pope is that it was never taught that the Holy Spirit guided the High Priest.

Yes, but now you're switching up. We're weren't talking about popes, but the Sister Lucia, Bp. Sheen, Padre Pio, Card. Ottaviani accepted it argument.
(12-31-2012, 08:14 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: But, what about the errors of Pius XII.

Name them.
(12-31-2012, 08:14 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: It was Pius XII that started all the changes that trads abhor. Shouldn't we just ignore all his teachings as well?

Such as?
(12-31-2012, 08:14 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: How does Divino Afflante Spiritu square with tradition in your mind (and especially Providentissimus Deus)? Is the post-54 missal evil? Can a valid Pontiff release an evil missal?

My views on the 1955 liturgical reforms are quite clear.

You can find them here: http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index...opic=101.0
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Messages In This Thread
Ottaviani intervention? - by The Dying Flutchman - 12-30-2012, 10:05 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by ImpyTerwilliger - 12-30-2012, 10:33 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Grasshopper - 12-31-2012, 01:01 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Someone1776 - 12-31-2012, 01:14 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by TeaGuyTom - 12-31-2012, 01:20 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Bakuryokuso - 12-31-2012, 02:03 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by SouthpawLink - 12-31-2012, 02:05 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by jovan66102 - 12-31-2012, 02:25 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by MRose - 12-31-2012, 11:12 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Justin - 12-31-2012, 12:00 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 12-31-2012, 01:20 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Someone1776 - 12-31-2012, 03:07 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Scriptorium - 12-31-2012, 03:12 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by SouthpawLink - 12-31-2012, 03:38 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by DoktorDespot - 12-31-2012, 03:59 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 12-31-2012, 04:11 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by SouthpawLink - 12-31-2012, 04:40 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by DoktorDespot - 12-31-2012, 04:54 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by DoktorDespot - 12-31-2012, 05:59 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Scriptorium - 12-31-2012, 06:27 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 12-31-2012, 06:37 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Someone1776 - 12-31-2012, 08:14 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Phillipus Iacobus - 12-31-2012, 08:54 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Someone1776 - 12-31-2012, 09:07 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Scriptorium - 01-01-2013, 10:52 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Scriptorium - 01-01-2013, 11:30 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by TeaGuyTom - 01-01-2013, 12:29 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 01-01-2013, 12:50 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Scriptorium - 01-01-2013, 12:54 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Someone1776 - 01-01-2013, 01:03 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 01-02-2013, 10:48 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Old Salt - 01-02-2013, 11:12 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by DustinsDad - 01-02-2013, 12:19 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 01-02-2013, 12:33 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by SaintSebastian - 01-02-2013, 12:47 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by MRose - 01-02-2013, 01:09 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 01-02-2013, 01:41 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by DustinsDad - 01-02-2013, 01:49 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 01-02-2013, 03:01 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by DustinsDad - 01-02-2013, 04:26 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 01-02-2013, 05:13 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by DustinsDad - 01-02-2013, 10:43 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 01-02-2013, 11:16 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by DustinsDad - 01-03-2013, 12:14 AM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by JayneK - 01-03-2013, 03:11 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by Cooler King - 01-03-2013, 03:16 PM
Re: Ottaviani intervention? - by DustinsDad - 01-03-2013, 05:07 PM



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