Infallibility of the Faith
#66
(06-24-2014, 12:33 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-24-2014, 12:00 AM)Beardly Wrote: Your conception of the cosmos as it relates to God is peculiar. First, God does not "alter the flow of the universe" by any traditional account. To change something he had previously created would require God himself to change, which is impossible. Rather, one would say that the universe alters its flow around God. Christ, for instance, did not somehow change the divine essence by becoming man. He changed the essence of man. Miracles are in principle no different.

That's a bit of a loose understanding, even though in a sense it is correct. The universe, however, is not self-motive. The old axiom applies: Quidquid movetur ab alio moventur (Whatever is moved is moved by another). The universe doesn't really "alter its flow around God", but because God from all eternity designed it to act in certain ways at certain times, secondary caused (parts of the universe) move other parts of the universe. Ultimately the causality ends up back at God Himself.

Miracles are not the "interference" but rather part of the plan, but outside of the normal course of what would naturally happen. Just because naturally something would not happen does not mean that God causing something beyond this (like the temporary suspension of the effect of a natural process) is changing his mind. Rather, He knew and planned to do this. It only appears to us to be God stepping in and changing things. For God it was always planned this way. He never changed His mind at all, just did what he had planned.

So, yes, in a way you're right, but I just wanted to offer some more precision.

I'm attempting to convey a paradigm that is implicit in the more precise way of talking about the issue but also covered over by said precision. As for it being a loose understanding, at least as involves Christ (which is what I assume you are referring to) the Eastern Orthodox understanding, and the understanding of many of the Church Fathers. As for the rest, I am familiar with Aristotle and Thomistic theology. I just decided not to use it, for the sake of clarity.
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Messages In This Thread
Infallibility of the Faith - by J Michael - 06-22-2014, 10:20 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-22-2014, 10:41 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-22-2014, 11:01 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by medievalman86 - 06-22-2014, 08:50 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by seanipie - 06-22-2014, 09:39 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 12:48 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 08:04 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by PolishTrad - 06-23-2014, 08:10 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 10:14 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 10:19 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 10:20 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 10:33 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 10:59 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 11:03 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 11:06 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 11:09 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 11:11 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Clare Brigid - 06-23-2014, 11:12 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 11:17 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 11:18 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 11:20 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 11:24 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 11:29 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 11:35 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 11:36 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 11:45 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 12:03 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by J Michael - 06-23-2014, 12:11 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 12:13 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 12:14 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 12:20 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 12:22 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Clare Brigid - 06-23-2014, 12:24 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 12:27 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 12:31 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 12:34 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 12:35 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by J Michael - 06-23-2014, 12:40 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 01:03 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by J Michael - 06-23-2014, 01:22 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 01:50 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 01:57 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 02:07 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by J Michael - 06-23-2014, 02:10 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 03:24 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 03:26 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by J Michael - 06-23-2014, 03:44 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 03:54 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Copeland - 06-23-2014, 03:56 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 04:26 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 04:31 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by J Michael - 06-23-2014, 04:40 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Qoheleth - 06-23-2014, 08:52 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Melkite - 06-23-2014, 09:46 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Beardly - 06-24-2014, 12:00 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Clare Brigid - 06-24-2014, 09:09 AM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by J Michael - 06-24-2014, 12:51 PM
Re: Infallibility of the Faith - by Beardly - 06-24-2014, 03:57 PM



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