Shaking the sand, Perils of Evangelizing in our Age
There is a point in your topic I find myself engaged with in the way of much pondering, some angst, and deep concerns.  I am alarmed by the view held by many both consciously and perhaps unconsciously, that is hostile toward any fatherly authority.  I think there is a widespread degradation of manhood and the idea that it is good for men to stand for something noble or virtuous.  This is correctly labeled as the emasculation of manhood and fatherhood. While it is true that all should be humble, humility is not an abdication of any aspect of properly exercised fatherly authority. Humility: know yourself no more, nor less than who God created you to be. What I find troublesome is the prevalent attitude that attempts to make you less, and should you stand up and take a position given to men by God as fathers, people rebel and attack, often with character assassinations.  So I view this as an attack on the family by way of trying to destroy God ordained order and His authority given to fathers in particular.  I also think this is being "back doored" into the church.  Priests are sons of fathers after all. So with the protestant reformation, a foment caused by rejection of authority,  this issue is at the heart of every discussion with those who have left the church or were born into rebellion.

For crying out loud, scripture is full of examples of God's authority structure. The church is organized in this way (hierarchical) Everywhere you look in scripture there are comportment's acknowledging God's authority structure. John 10:18 "I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."  So even the choice to lay ones life down for others is a God ordained authoritative action, not something crammed down your throat by others.

It is true that Christ gave himself up for us.  We are called to give ourselves up for others. Yet the substance of original sin is rebellion against God and a choice to be self willed. What is needed for our redemption is to choose to un-rebel and choose Christ as King. This is a submission to His authority and acceptance of the grace of charity from the one who IS charity.

I am dumbfounded hearing people say "well that's not really what that scripture means" Ignoring the fact that there are many other scriptures stating the same principle in other words. Ignoring the fact that God established an authoritative structure for society to follow. I see this as an ongoing "rediscovery of original sin" I am always reminded of the scripture that says "like a dog returns to it's vomit"

So yes it is a minefield when one try's to represent God with any kind of reasoned approach especially if you make any reference to authority.  But this is at the heart of rebellion and the pivot point of our redemption.  One tactic is to simply ask this question "by whose authority do you speak"  The usual grade school response is "I believe in the bible" So the next question is "Where in the bible does it say the bible is the proper authority" and "who wrote the bible"  The interesting heart of the authority of the church to govern is in understanding how Hebrew Kingdoms were structured. (the knowledge of the principle of the "keys to the kingdom" issue)

So to sum up. God IS Love. God is also authoritative. These are not competing ideas. They are established for our good. We are born into rebellion, sanctified by baptism, and must choose to obey Gods commandants, including respecting how He chooses to run is Kingdom, and respecting and obeying those to whom he gives authority.

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Re: Shaking the sand, Perils of Evangelizing in our Age - by Panum - 04-19-2017, 09:20 PM

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