Pope Francis's Sacrilegious Nativity Scene
(12-21-2017, 01:25 AM)Paul Wrote:
(12-21-2017, 01:05 AM)Dominicus Wrote: Once again, what makes an obelisk dedicated to pagan gods different from a temple dedicated to pagan gods? Or how about a pillar taken from a temple dedicated to pagan gods? Is the moral issue with the fact that the object was devoted to pagan gods or is the issue that it vaguely resembles genetalia? By the way, pillars have been associated with phallic symbols in many cultures.

The only people who do have authority to interpret scripture have no problem with the obelisk.

Sometimes an obelisk is just an obelisk.

Would that we could end our discussion, no argument now, on this note Dominicus, but I cannot, for the obelisk in St Peter's Square is not just an obelisk but is the very one that stood in the heart of Heliopolis.

The Egyptians were led by a pharaoh. His function was to maintain the order of the universe, established at creation and embracing not only the social and political structure of Egypt, but also the laws of nature, the movement of the heavenly bodies, the rotation of the seasons and the flood control of the River Nile. Two of the most prominent gods were Re and Anu, the sun gods. Cities such as Heliopolis ‘the City of the Sun,’ to the Greeks, were built in his image. These cities regularly contained temples, most noted of all the Sun Temples ‘that once formed the sacred heart of ancient Egyptian spirituality.’ The architecture of these temples more often than not communicated a heliocentric system of six planets situated around a central fire to symbolise the sun. Then there were the pyramids, built as a stairway to the gods of the sky, their ‘towers of Bable.’ Finally the phallic obelisks [bel], built ten times higher than their width, were consecrated to the sun-god, which, according to the historian Pliny, is the meaning of the word in Egyptian.

Another such story occurred during the reign of Pope Urban VIII. Two close acquaintances of the Pope’s were Galileo and Lorenzo Bernini. Then there was Bernini’s friend, Fr Athanasius Kircher; S.J. (1602-1680), described by Frances Yates as the ‘most notable descendant of the Hermetic-Cabalist tradition,’ a Jesuit who devoted his life to researching the origins of all things without distinction. A brilliant historian, mathematician and linguist (he is reputed to having known over 20 languages) Fr Kircher specialised in all things Egyptian and set up a museum for this purpose. Because of this he was invited to study and lecture at the Jesuit College in Rome in 1635, a mere two years after Galileo’s trial. One of the subjects Kircher devoted his time to was trying to interpret Egyptian hieroglyphs, an understanding he believed he mastered, reading into them profound mysteries and wisdom. It was not until two hundred years later, in the 1820s, that Jean Francois Champollion deciphered the true meaning of these hieroglyphs with the help of the ‘Rosetta Stone.’ Thus the obelisks were ‘seen to enshrine not “the highest mysteries of Divinity” as Kircher thought, but rather a dull record, for the most part, of the acts and attributes of [Egyptian] kings.’[1]

     It was Fr Kircher then, who said the ‘writings’ and signs on Egypt’s ancient obelisks referred to the Trinity of Christians and were worthy of preservation and display. For this reason then Roman churchmen ‘embraced these prophetic obelisks’ and had no problem erecting many of them in the squares of Rome.

[1] Joscelyn Godwin: Athanasius Kircher, Thames and Hudson, 1979.

In 1655, the then Pope Alexander VII (1655-1667) commissioned the now famous Bernini to redesign St Peter’s Square. This work was interrupted when King Louis XIV invited Bernini to Paris. On his return Bernini completed the work, marking out what looks like a circle with the obelisk at its centre point but in fact it is an ellipse, with the phallic obelisk as its focus or generating point as Kepler, Newton and others used it to accommodate their condemned heliocentrism. Bernini’s solution was to design a piazza in the form of an ellipse; the foci of the ellipse are indicated by marble and granite disks embedded within the pavement of the piazza. The elliptical shape also symbolizes the Church’s embrace of all of mankind, “the motherly arms of the church,” as Bernini described his Colonnade. But more than that for Bernini then filled the space with a large eight-rayed sun wheel design - symbol of Ishtar. At the very centre of the larger wheel there was then created an inner four-pointed sun-wheel, the same symbol as found on the altar-stone in the temple of Baal.

For me then, that obelisk in St Peter's Square =- already consecrated to the sun god condemned in Scripture - represents paganism and heretical heliocentrism, a heresy that popes eventually allowed as an interpretation of the Scriptures. This in turn began a modernism of the Bible from the day in 1835 when Pope Gregory XVI finalised a new heliocentric interpretation of Scripture defined as formal heresy in 1616.

For me then, that obelisk is not just an obelisk. I have said my piece and have no more to add or explain about this obelisk..

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RE: Pope Francis's Sacrilegious Nativity Scene - by cassini - 12-21-2017, 08:39 AM

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