The Second Vatican Council
#57
(07-20-2019, 06:25 AM)Ginnyfree2 Wrote: BC  - "There is no other way around it. DH indicts the Catholic Church has having been unjust all of Her previous centuries towards non Catholics in Catholic states."

GF - Please show me where in the Document it states this. 

BC - "John Courtney Murray, the author of the document itself can't even explain how his teaching can be reconciled to previous Catholic teaching, which he expressly admits states the opposite of his own."

GF - Murray was not the sole author of DH, so your statement regarding him needs clarification.  Though he was silenced for a time on the subject of Church and state and obeyed diligently, his diligence and obedience was rewarded by the lifting of the censures and as a further reward, confirming his innocence, he was permitted to do as he has done for the Church in co-authoring DH.  Where do you find his failure to explain the allegations you make, that is what he wrote in DH is irreconcilable with previous Church teachings?  This claim is rather far-fetched.  I'm supposed to believe with all those Prelates with their eyes upon his proposals, reading and re-reading the drafts submitted, hashing out what they contain till they are ready for a final and binding copy, this most obvious of errors, that if true, would mean his words and those of his co-authors are introducting new teaching.  Like they'd not catch that?  No.  We all know this is just not possible.  These men aren't that ignorant that they'd not see a new teaching being introduced in any of the proposed drafts.  

God bless.  Ginnyfree.

DH doesn't say the Catholic Church has been wrong, it just simply ignored previous teaching on Religious Liberty, like it did with previously condemned Ecumenisim, and proceeded to assert a new position. Anyone familiar with the Traditional teaching recognized it as an implicit renunciation.

What do you mean where do I find it, or that it is far fetched? It's a direct quote from the man himself.

Why was this all not caught? In short, because the committees were stacked with theologians who had been condemned by Pius XII in the 50s were rehabilitated by John XXIII. The conservative bishops and cardinals were largely silenced or out maneuvered. These machinations were documented in the Rhine Flows into the Tiber.

"In fact, cardinal Liènart [a Freemason per Borghese, 1976], on the morning of the outset of the works, rose at the desk of the presidency, and threw away the mask. He said, in fact, that all the schemas predisposed by the members of the preparatory Commission created by John XXIII on 5 June 1960 with criteria that we might still define traditional, would be rejected a priori [in advance]. In that precise moment the ancient balances were shattered. The true [anti-Catholic] face of the Council appeared in all its actuality, before the Church, before the Catholics, before the world."  (Franco Bellegrandi, "The Counterlife of a Pope", Chapter XI.)

Jean Guitton(theologian and intimate confidante of Paul VI) confesses: the II Vatican Council has proclaimed what Saint Pius X condemned as Modernist heresy, in 1906:

When I read the documents relative to the Modernism, as it was defined by Saint Pius X, and when I compare them to the documents of the II Vatican Council, I cannot help being bewildered. For what was condemned as heresy in 1906 was proclaimed as what is and should be from now on the doctrine and method of the Church. In other words, the modernists of 1906 were, somewhat, precursors to me. My masters were part of them. My parents taught me Modernism. How could Saint Pius X reject those that now seem to be my precursors?” (Jean Guitton, Portrait du Père Lagrange, Éditions Robert Laffont, Paris, 1992, pp. 55-56).

“The word aggiornamento, which was chosen [by John XXIII] as a consignee for the actualization of the Church cannot prevent us from feeling a certain tickling if we think about how little it differs from the meaning of the taboo word Modernism” (Father T. M. Schoof, La Nueva Teologia Católica, Ediciones Caros Lohlé, Buenos Aires, 1971, p. 279. ).

“Pope Pius XII's encyclical Humani Generis had.... a devastating effect on the work of a number of pre-conciliar theologians.... theologians and biblical scholars, who had been under a cloud for years, surfaced as periti [theological experts who advised the Bishops] at Vatican II.”  (Nouvelle Théologie - NEW Theology - theologian, Bishop Aloysius Wycislo [b. at Chicago, Illinois in 1908 - d. in 2005] Vatican Two Revisited; Reflections by One who was there, paperback edition published by Alba House on October, 1987

John XXIII rehabilitated various theologians formerly considered suspect by the Holy See or even condemned for heterodoxy. Some of them were exponents of the Nouvelle Théologie (New Theology). Philippe Levillain wrote this about the theological commission that prepared the Council: "Among the advisors, one noted the presence of Frs. Congar, de Lubac, Hans Küng and others. The whole group of theologians implicitly condemned by the Encyclical Humani Generis in 1950 had been called to Rome at the behest of John XXIII"La mécanique politique de Vatican II, Paris: Beauchesne, 1975, p. 77.

The New Theology, condemned by Pope Pius XII in the Encyclical Humani Generis, has now "become the official theology of Vatican II." Jesuit Fr. Peter Henrici, 30 Days Magazine (December 1991),

Cardinal Congar confirmed the role of John XXIII in appointing progressivists to influential positions for the Council:

"Fr. De Lubac later told me that it was John XXIII himself who had insisted that we both become members of this commission [that prepared the Council]"Jean Puyo interroge le Cardinal Père Congar - Une vie pour la verité, Paris: Centurion, 1975, p. 124.
[-] The following 3 users Like BC's post:
  • Alphonse il Segundo, MagisterMusicae, yablabo
Reply


Messages In This Thread
The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-16-2019, 11:37 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Zedta - 07-16-2019, 11:48 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-18-2019, 09:52 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Bluestreak - 07-25-2019, 06:17 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Bonaventure - 07-16-2019, 11:50 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-16-2019, 02:13 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Bluestreak - 07-25-2019, 12:41 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-16-2019, 12:13 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by FultonFan - 07-16-2019, 01:35 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Zedta - 07-16-2019, 04:50 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-16-2019, 05:03 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-16-2019, 06:36 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Lavenderson - 07-17-2019, 10:17 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by MaryTN - 07-16-2019, 06:34 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-18-2019, 10:02 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-18-2019, 10:19 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-16-2019, 08:22 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-17-2019, 12:58 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by yablabo - 07-16-2019, 10:01 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-16-2019, 11:07 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by yablabo - 07-17-2019, 12:31 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by yablabo - 07-17-2019, 07:20 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-19-2019, 03:07 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-18-2019, 10:56 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-18-2019, 11:07 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-18-2019, 02:41 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-19-2019, 04:56 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-17-2019, 01:04 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-18-2019, 10:47 AM
The Second Vatican Council - by Augustinian - 07-17-2019, 02:13 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-17-2019, 04:05 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-19-2019, 02:29 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by BC - 07-18-2019, 05:46 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-19-2019, 02:07 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Augustinian - 07-17-2019, 04:21 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-17-2019, 04:48 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-18-2019, 10:48 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-19-2019, 02:38 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Augustinian - 07-19-2019, 10:30 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by jovan66102 - 07-19-2019, 11:16 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-20-2019, 03:26 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-21-2019, 09:59 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-20-2019, 03:17 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by BC - 07-20-2019, 05:54 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-20-2019, 06:25 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by BC - 07-20-2019, 02:17 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-20-2019, 08:35 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by BC - 07-22-2019, 07:21 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-20-2019, 04:56 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-17-2019, 05:12 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-18-2019, 12:08 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by yablabo - 07-18-2019, 08:09 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-18-2019, 09:41 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-18-2019, 09:19 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by yablabo - 07-18-2019, 10:07 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-18-2019, 10:18 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by yablabo - 07-18-2019, 10:35 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Ginnyfree2 - 07-21-2019, 09:49 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by yablabo - 07-21-2019, 01:58 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by BC - 07-20-2019, 02:31 PM
The Second Vatican Council - by dalriadan39 - 07-20-2019, 06:21 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-21-2019, 09:45 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-21-2019, 04:12 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by yablabo - 07-21-2019, 04:29 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-22-2019, 09:12 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by BC - 07-22-2019, 07:27 PM
The Second Vatican Council - by Augustinian - 07-21-2019, 02:50 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Blind Horus - 07-21-2019, 03:58 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-21-2019, 04:35 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by yablabo - 07-21-2019, 08:29 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by cassini - 07-25-2019, 08:59 AM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by jovan66102 - 07-25-2019, 03:19 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by BC - 07-25-2019, 05:15 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Lavenderson - 07-25-2019, 06:48 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-25-2019, 04:11 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by jovan66102 - 07-25-2019, 05:07 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-25-2019, 10:04 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Some Guy - 07-25-2019, 10:47 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by Filiolus - 07-25-2019, 11:46 PM
RE: The Second Vatican Council - by VoxClamantis - 07-26-2019, 01:44 AM



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)