Sex questions
#37
(01-17-2020, 01:22 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote:
(01-17-2020, 02:47 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Those theologians like Jones, Prummer, Davis, etc. will generally say that non-vaginal intercourse type sexual contact without serious risk of a complete act outside of the vagina is not a grave sin in itself. It could be considered a kind of preparatory touch, or might be used on the woman if she did not achieve complete satisfaction. It is dangerous, and usually disordered, so sinful in most cases, but not universally.

Fr Ripperger, on the other hand, says it is always and everywhere a mortal sin. He's welcome to that harsher opinion, but it would be wrong to bind people to his rigorism when good moral theologians who are far more Thomistic in their approach than he do not hold this view.

Did you listen to the talk?  I didn't hear him say that.  He said that anal is sodomy and is always a sin.

He said that oral on a woman in preparation for the act and for stimulation after the act is not a sin in fact.  

I don't know who those other theologians are, but people need to get this information and don't know where to get it and they can get vastly different opinions from different priests.

I think it's helpful to know what Aquinas and Ligouri said on this matter and it's refreshing to know they dealt with it in a straightforward manner in their day.

I've heard that talk and others before and have accurately represented his position from what I have heard him say.

Those other theologians are the standard moral theologians studied before Vatican II.

Fr Ripperger does quote St Thomas and St Alphonsus, but selectively, and against what later theologians more commonly agreed upon. He is known to bend what St Thomas actually says to fit a narrative (what he says is not false, but it is a misquote--it is from this that Hugh Owen at the Kolbe Center misquotes St Thomas, and that was a misquote that Fr Ripperger approved, for instance).

The principles of moral theology never change, but the application of them does given a better understanding of science, medicine, etc. That is why moral theologians may differ in their opinions. Until the Church settles the matter, one is permitted to take any opinion, but cannot bind anyone to any particular one.

There are different opinions, and the point of the pastor/authority issue is that only one's pastor has the authority to counsel what opinion you ought to follow (since he will be the one usually hearing your confessions and has a responsibility for your soul). A priest who does not have the grace of state to care for your soul has no business telling you that you must follow his opinion. Layfolk on a forum can discuss the matters, but also have no business insisting that any one of permisible moral opinion must be followed.

If there are solid traditional theologians that allow oral or anal contact and the Church has not condemned these opinions, and they are probable (it is possible they are correct), one is permitted to follow them without sin. Experts can argue which is true, but that's really not a good idea for someone who doesn't know the theology behind these things, or even the most common moral theologians from before the Council.
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Sex questions - by Porkncheese - 01-15-2020, 06:18 AM
RE: Sex questions - by CarmeliteKnight - 01-15-2020, 07:27 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Porkncheese - 01-15-2020, 09:14 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Augustinian - 01-15-2020, 10:26 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Porkncheese - 01-15-2020, 10:53 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Augustinian - 01-15-2020, 10:57 AM
RE: Sex questions - by ServusDei - 01-15-2020, 11:17 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Porkncheese - 01-15-2020, 11:55 AM
RE: Sex questions - by jack89 - 01-15-2020, 12:47 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Porkncheese - 01-15-2020, 02:05 PM
RE: Sex questions - by jovan66102 - 01-16-2020, 04:01 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Augustinian - 01-15-2020, 11:42 AM
RE: Sex questions - by ServusDei - 01-15-2020, 12:38 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Augustinian - 01-15-2020, 12:51 PM
RE: Sex questions - by jack89 - 01-15-2020, 01:24 PM
RE: Sex questions - by MacPasquale - 01-15-2020, 12:56 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-15-2020, 02:54 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Augustinian - 01-15-2020, 01:02 PM
RE: Sex questions - by ServusDei - 01-15-2020, 01:07 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-15-2020, 03:01 PM
RE: Sex questions - by MagisterMusicae - 01-17-2020, 02:47 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-17-2020, 01:22 PM
RE: Sex questions - by MagisterMusicae - 01-17-2020, 04:58 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-17-2020, 05:05 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-15-2020, 03:20 PM
RE: Sex questions - by josh987654321 - 01-15-2020, 11:04 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-16-2020, 02:31 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Porkncheese - 01-16-2020, 09:21 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-16-2020, 09:45 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-16-2020, 03:46 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-16-2020, 10:01 PM
RE: Sex questions - by josh987654321 - 01-16-2020, 11:58 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Porkncheese - 01-17-2020, 01:45 AM
RE: Sex questions - by divinesilence80 - 01-17-2020, 02:34 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-17-2020, 01:37 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-17-2020, 02:06 PM
RE: Sex questions - by MagisterMusicae - 01-17-2020, 04:47 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-17-2020, 04:55 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-17-2020, 05:39 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Porkncheese - 01-17-2020, 09:09 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-18-2020, 12:38 AM
RE: Sex questions - by MagisterMusicae - 01-19-2020, 04:23 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-19-2020, 05:02 PM
RE: Sex questions - by divinesilence80 - 01-19-2020, 06:42 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-19-2020, 06:51 PM
RE: Sex questions - by divinesilence80 - 01-19-2020, 08:54 PM
RE: Sex questions - by Sacred Heart lover - 01-19-2020, 10:18 PM
RE: Sex questions - by divinesilence80 - 01-20-2020, 01:23 AM
RE: Sex questions - by Eric F - 01-20-2020, 12:44 PM



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)