Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church)
#11
(05-10-2012, 05:20 AM)Stubborn Wrote:
(05-09-2012, 08:26 PM)salus Wrote: The Church was always compared to the Ark of Noah meaning you had to be in it to be saved, many old catechisms used this example.

"No salvation outside the Church" became "Some salvation outside the Church" because of the false belief that sincerity outside the Church is salvation within the Church.

"Our Lord showed His abundant mercy when He sent the great flood, think about all those souls who were saved outside the ark because they were begging God to have mercy on them as they were drowning." - sermon on EENS

There's no teaching that cannot be perverted.

I think that's a bit of a mis-representation. I think it would be more accurate to say "No salvation outside the Church" became "No salvation outside the Church *but many people not visibly connected to the Church are in fact part of the Church through inculpable ignorance*" (*= huge emphasis placed here).

In my opinion the common mis-understanding made by various Catholics is that invincible ignorance is somehow salvific, when it isn't. Invincible ignorance simply results in being not condemned for your ignorance. You are still held accountable for all other sins and mortal sins committed.
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#12
Oh, here we go again.  :LOL:
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#13
(05-09-2012, 07:42 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: "Why?"

Because they don't believe in it.
Or if they believe in it , they do not want to offend others by being "politically incorrrect" in telling them so.
In other words, fear.
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#14
When you tell people there is NO Salvation outside the Catholic Church, what do they not understand,why must you explain furthur, let them enter the church if salvation is their interest.
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#15
I thought that the meaning of this doctrine was that there is no salvation outside the Church for those who have been instructed in the truth, and understand it, and then choose to ignore it.

This I believe is a truth. But that does not mean that I agree with the dropping of missionary work or the new ecuminism, or the lack of evangelization. I believe the dogma should be preached.

OTOH, I also see that these days the New Evangelization might in fact mean teaching Catholics the basics of the Faith.

So, again, much work needs to be done.
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#16
(05-10-2012, 12:54 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote: I thought that the meaning of this doctrine was that there is no salvation outside the Church for those who have been instructed in the truth, and understand it, and then choose to ignore it.

That is the meaning as taught in the NO catechism however, in order for that meaning to hold any weight whatsoever, it is no longer a defined Dogma of the Catholic Church - per the CCC, the NO church has reduced it to what it is now - a mere affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers. Additionally, in order to assure ambiguity to the point of making EENS a useless affirmation while they were at it, they reformulated the "affirmation" positively - as if that is even possible, but that is what they did to the dogma.

So as it stands, only those are damned who know that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation - all others are better off as ignoramuses. 

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#17
(05-10-2012, 09:41 AM)Old Salt Wrote:
(05-09-2012, 07:42 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: "Why?"

Because they don't believe in it.
Or if they believe in it , they do not want to offend others by being "politically incorrrect" in telling them so.
In other words, fear.

It's not fear mostly, it's real unbelief.
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#18
(05-10-2012, 04:41 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(05-10-2012, 09:41 AM)Old Salt Wrote:
(05-09-2012, 07:42 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: "Why?"

Because they don't believe in it.
Or if they believe in it , they do not want to offend others by being "politically incorrrect" in telling them so.
In other words, fear.

It's not fear mostly, it's real unbelief.

Unbelief coupled with human respect weakness.
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#19
Read Humani Generis (1950) Pope Pius 12th said some reduce the dogma "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church" to a meaningless formula, conservatives and liberals today have that both in common , they do reduce it to a meaningless formula with their BUTS!
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#20
(05-09-2012, 07:42 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: "Why?"

Because they don't believe in it.

This is, I'm afraid, the unfortunate reality.
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