TLM in Vietnam?
#11
(09-04-2012, 02:11 PM)SaintRafael Wrote:
(09-04-2012, 07:34 AM)damooster Wrote: I have been thinking of moving out of the US for about the past two years now but I did not know how I would make a living. I recently discovered that teaching English as a foreign language is in high demand overseas and if you're a native English speaker, you can make a decent living. So I enrolled in a Teaching English as a Foreign Language certification course and upon graduating, will move to Hanoi to begin teaching (I already have a job lined up). I picked Hanoi because it's considered a good place to start and it has a large American community of people doing the same thing I'm doing. From there I plan to do some traveling while teaching.

You do know that Vietnam is a Communist state? That there is Communist control over the Church. There is actually an underground Church operating in secrecy from the government because the official Church and clergy have quotas placed on them.

Yes, I knew it was a Communist country but about as "relaxed" as you can get. Some acquaintances have said that they've never encountered any problems. I just want to find a TLM.
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#12
(09-04-2012, 09:57 PM)damooster Wrote:
(09-04-2012, 02:11 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: You do know that Vietnam is a Communist state? That there is Communist control over the Church. There is actually an underground Church operating in secrecy from the government because the official Church and clergy have quotas placed on them.

Yes, I knew it was a Communist country but about as "relaxed" as you can get. Some acquaintances have said that they've never encountered any problems. I just want to find a TLM.

No, it's not "relaxed" as far as the Catholic Church goes.  They hate the Church and they actively persecute it.  They even give trouble to the Novus Ordo hierarchy.  But the main thing is that they are very, very aggressive against real Catholics.

You need some serious backgrounding on Vietnam before you go there so that you can ensure your own safety, and also that of any traditional Catholics you encounter.  One thing you'll need to understand is that there are fake trads who exist to discover the real ones to the authorities.  I strongly suggest that you request a phone call with Fr. Couture in order for him to give you the background you need.  Just call the priory and leave a message, explaining your plans.
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#13
Many of my family members were killed for opposing communism in Vietnam. My 13-year-old aunt was shot and killed as she and her family tried to escape via fishing boat into international waters.

I think times have gotten "milder" since the war, but there are still many instances of violence and discrimination against the Church, e.g., land seizures, destruction of property, Catholics being imprisoned, beaten, etc.

http://www.cfnews.org/vietnam.htm

Quote:On January 6 Vietnamese officials dynamited a crucifix in a cemetery belonging to the Dong Chiem Parish Church, 40 miles from Hanoi. Parishioners who tried to prevent the destruction were beaten by police. Since then, Catholic priests and faithful have been assaulted by uniformed and plainclothes police, and Catholics who try to visit the parish are harassed and beaten; one journalist pummeled to unconsciousness. The latest outrage is a February 24 attack on a group of nuns visiting various parishes in the area.

The demolition of crucifix began at 3:00 a.m. with the use of explosives. “On hearing the explosions, parishioners rushed to the site to protect their crucifix but they were stopped by police who tried to drive them back, “said Father Nguyen Van Huu, pastor of Dong Chiem parish.

The Archdiocese of Hanoi immediately issued a press release denouncing the government’s actions: “Police attacked the parish today, in the early morning, when both its pastor and the pastor’s assistant were at the annual retreat in the Archbishop’s Office. An estimated 500 heavily armed and well-entrenched police officers and a large number of trained dogs were deployed in the area to protect an army engineering unit that destroyed a large crucifix erected on a boulder inside the parish cemetery.”

Parishioners recounted being shot at close range with tear gas canisters, even as they were kneeling in prayer, asking the police to stop the devastation. Other parishioners were beaten with batons.

. . .though I also know personally many priests and religious who have never run into any problems, so. . . :shrug:

Be careful, anyway.
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#14
I don't know anything about Vietnam.

And I don't want to rain on any parades.

But after reading this thread, if I was in your position, I'd seriously reconsider. 

Not inviting or expecting a discussion about whether you will or won't, should or shouldn't, can or can't.  But I needed to say it.
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#15
(09-05-2012, 02:32 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: I don't know anything about Vietnam.

And I don't want to rain on any parades.

But after reading this thread, if I was in your position, I'd seriously reconsider. 

Not inviting or expecting a discussion about whether you will or won't, should or shouldn't, can or can't.  But I needed to say it.

This is a fair suggestion. Times are hard, and it's understandable to go far away, even outside of the country, to make a living. However, the very fact that you are a Catholic makes you a target in Vietnam. As one prone to believe in conspiracy theories, I could say the same thing about the government here, but, over there persecutions actually happened. Look a what the Khmer Rouge did in Cambodia, just across the border. I'm sure what we know of persections is only a fraction of what has happened.

Personally, I couldn't put myself in a position where I would be deprived of traditional Sacraments, no matter how enticing the pay. I did it for a month in Mexico, and don't want to do that again.

Mooster, I'm sure you've looked into this, thought about it, prayed, and so forth, but do you have to go to Vietnam? No openings in Manila, or even Seoul?

As a non-native, you will attract a lot of attention. You also happen to profess the one, true Faith, and that puts you on the radar.

Just take what I'm saying into consideration. If you can find some option where you will have the traditional sacraments available, go for it. If not, look elsewhere in the region. Or even look here at home. I know a little bit about TESOL (thought about doing it myself, but I'd go your route and get a certification rather than an MA in English. Just a back up plan on my part), and it is anecdotal, but the US is becoming inundated with Spanish speakers who will need to learn English. Just a thought.
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#16
(09-05-2012, 02:32 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: I don't know anything about Vietnam.

And I don't want to rain on any parades.

But after reading this thread, if I was in your position, I'd seriously reconsider. 

Not inviting or expecting a discussion about whether you will or won't, should or shouldn't, can or can't.  But I needed to say it.

I'm glad you said it, because that's what I was thinking when I asked why. 

Is there a position in another country that you could apply for? From the little you've told us you only have a couple reasons to go and several good reasons not to...including lack of availability of the sacraments and putting yourself in danger for practicing your faith. 

Like Mith said you don't need to justify your reasons to us, but just think about it.  It's not like you're a missionary so is moving to a communist country really prudent? 
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#17
The attitude of the government toward  the Church in Vietnam goes far beyond the normal Communist hatred of the Faith. It goes back to the fact that before the free Republic of Vietnam fell to the Red Slavemasters much of the ruling class was Catholic. In fact, Abp Thuc was the brother of the President of the Republic. Catholics are seen not only as the enemies of the Marxist State but as traitors as well.
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#18
(09-05-2012, 03:09 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: The attitude of the government toward  the Church in Vietnam goes far beyond the normal Communist hatred of the Faith. It goes back to the fact that before the free Republic of Vietnam fell to the Red Slavemasters much of the ruling class was Catholic. In fact, Abp Thuc was the brother of the President of the Republic. Catholics are seen not only as the enemies of the Marxist State but as traitors as well.

The emperor (exiled in France) converted as well.
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#19
I appreciate your concerns everyone, and I thank you for them. But it's a done deal. I have friends there now that have been informing me and I'm confident that I will be ok.
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#20
I went for holidays in Vietnam this past June. The SSPX only have Mass once a month where the priests fly in from Singapore. I did contact the prior to ask when and where the Mass would be, but no reply.

Yes Vietnam is Communist, but pretty relaxed. They do allow Masses, priests etc. You will have guards surrounding the Church, but that's it. Churches are open, so it's pretty relaxed.
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