Head of CDF declares Catholic bishop isn't
(10-11-2012, 02:23 AM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 12:33 AM)Gerard Wrote: If the Holy Father can spread a series of untruths about Bishop Williamson without being called out on it except by a nobody like me,  then Muller can claim Williamson is a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica and nobody will do anything about it but rather lap it up like gospel. 

The Holy Father sets the tempo. 

Of course, God Himself will call for an accounting in the not too distant future unless the Holy Father makes an effort at reparations or if he has confessed it and confessed being too weak to make amends. 

The same will hold for Muller. 

It's a good thing you are here to tell the truth about the Whore of Babylon.

You shouldn't speak about your god that way.  Remember, the Pope is above the Eighth Commandment. 

If the world is round and the Pope says it's flat, it flattens.  Right? 
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(10-10-2012, 11:25 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: What you have said is NOT what +Mueller said.

You are making clarifications and assumptions with his words.

He's the freaking Prefect for the CDF and he can't be as precise as some random Internet poster?

SEE THE ISSUE HERE?!


(I reject your interpretation, by the way.  If he meant that, he would have said that).

Hear, hear!
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(10-11-2012, 10:30 AM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 02:23 AM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 12:33 AM)Gerard Wrote: If the Holy Father can spread a series of untruths about Bishop Williamson without being called out on it except by a nobody like me,  then Muller can claim Williamson is a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica and nobody will do anything about it but rather lap it up like gospel. 

The Holy Father sets the tempo. 

Of course, God Himself will call for an accounting in the not too distant future unless the Holy Father makes an effort at reparations or if he has confessed it and confessed being too weak to make amends. 

The same will hold for Muller. 

It's a good thing you are here to tell the truth about the Whore of Babylon.

You shouldn't speak about your god that way.  Remember, the Pope is above the Eighth Commandment. 

If the world is round and the Pope says it's flat, it flattens.  Right? 
Fr. Cekada mentions that here, in which he discusses how a certain novel he read treated this theme:
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"without a hint of a doubt that it's valid because Holy Mother Church has decreed it so."

Gerard,
How do you know this with absolute moral certainty?
[referring to SSPX absolutions being always valid]
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(10-11-2012, 10:30 AM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 02:23 AM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 12:33 AM)Gerard Wrote: If the Holy Father can spread a series of untruths about Bishop Williamson without being called out on it except by a nobody like me,  then Muller can claim Williamson is a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica and nobody will do anything about it but rather lap it up like gospel. 

The Holy Father sets the tempo. 

Of course, God Himself will call for an accounting in the not too distant future unless the Holy Father makes an effort at reparations or if he has confessed it and confessed being too weak to make amends. 

The same will hold for Muller. 

It's a good thing you are here to tell the truth about the Whore of Babylon.

You shouldn't speak about your god that way.  Remember, the Pope is above the Eighth Commandment. 

If the world is round and the Pope says it's flat, it flattens.  Right? 

You might be confused; I wasn't talking about God, I was talking about his vicar on Earth.  LOL
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(10-11-2012, 02:01 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 10:30 AM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 02:23 AM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 12:33 AM)Gerard Wrote: If the Holy Father can spread a series of untruths about Bishop Williamson without being called out on it except by a nobody like me,  then Muller can claim Williamson is a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica and nobody will do anything about it but rather lap it up like gospel. 

The Holy Father sets the tempo. 

Of course, God Himself will call for an accounting in the not too distant future unless the Holy Father makes an effort at reparations or if he has confessed it and confessed being too weak to make amends. 

The same will hold for Muller. 

It's a good thing you are here to tell the truth about the Whore of Babylon.

You shouldn't speak about your god that way.  Remember, the Pope is above the Eighth Commandment. 

If the world is round and the Pope says it's flat, it flattens.  Right? 

You might be confused; I wasn't talking about God, I was talking about his vicar on Earth.  LOL

Then, you are saying that the Pope is the Whore of Babylon?  I always thought Protestants meant that to refer to the Church. 
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(10-11-2012, 12:03 PM)Old Salt Wrote: "without a hint of a doubt that it's valid because Holy Mother Church has decreed it so."

Gerard,
How do you know this with absolute moral certainty?
[referring to SSPX absolutions being always valid]

Certitude is either absolute or moral.  Absolute certitude is not possible in this life, therefore, based on my best and honest discernment, I have moral certitude on the issue. 

And I didn't say they are always valid, because you still have to hear the proper absolution if you are suspicious of such things. 
Reply
(10-10-2012, 02:24 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-10-2012, 11:43 AM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote: It's always been a bit mysterious to me how they could be considered to be better off than the SSPX.

They went into schism with whole local churches in toto, bishops and flocks, maintaining a jurisdictional claim on their dioceses.  And further, there is a strangely continuous history of each side treating each others jurisdiction as somewhat meaningful (there is no Orthodox pretender to the See of Rome, never has been, and aside from certain key Sees and in the midst of the Crusades, rarely a Catholic bishop inserted into a place with an existing Orthodox hierarchy).  Well into the history of the schism, Franciscan and Dominican friars when missionaries in the Middle East, would treat the Orthodox bishops as their ordinaries.  Orthodox continued to admit that the Pope is the chief bishop, and Orthodox Patriarchs would make requests to Rome for priests to fill in shortages (that contact is how the Melkite Catholics got started, but it was slow).  But that original, continuing jurisdiction was key.  The Popes never denied that the Eastern Churches existed in continuity, and have always attempted reconciliation with their bishops rather than replacement,

The SSPX situation is very different; in some ways much better, in some ways worse off.  There is no continuing jurisdiction with the past, though there is with the Campos situation.

Thank you for that.
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(10-11-2012, 08:37 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 02:01 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 10:30 AM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 02:23 AM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 12:33 AM)Gerard Wrote: If the Holy Father can spread a series of untruths about Bishop Williamson without being called out on it except by a nobody like me,  then Muller can claim Williamson is a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica and nobody will do anything about it but rather lap it up like gospel. 

The Holy Father sets the tempo. 

Of course, God Himself will call for an accounting in the not too distant future unless the Holy Father makes an effort at reparations or if he has confessed it and confessed being too weak to make amends. 

The same will hold for Muller. 

It's a good thing you are here to tell the truth about the Whore of Babylon.

You shouldn't speak about your god that way.  Remember, the Pope is above the Eighth Commandment. 

If the world is round and the Pope says it's flat, it flattens.  Right? 

You might be confused; I wasn't talking about God, I was talking about his vicar on Earth.  LOL

Then, you are saying that the Pope is the Whore of Babylon?  I always thought Protestants meant that to refer to the Church. 

I am interpreting your own words; and Protestants mean it to refer mainly to the Pope.
Reply
(10-11-2012, 09:11 PM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote:
(10-10-2012, 02:24 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-10-2012, 11:43 AM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote: It's always been a bit mysterious to me how they could be considered to be better off than the SSPX.

They went into schism with whole local churches in toto, bishops and flocks, maintaining a jurisdictional claim on their dioceses.  And further, there is a strangely continuous history of each side treating each others jurisdiction as somewhat meaningful (there is no Orthodox pretender to the See of Rome, never has been, and aside from certain key Sees and in the midst of the Crusades, rarely a Catholic bishop inserted into a place with an existing Orthodox hierarchy).  Well into the history of the schism, Franciscan and Dominican friars when missionaries in the Middle East, would treat the Orthodox bishops as their ordinaries.  Orthodox continued to admit that the Pope is the chief bishop, and Orthodox Patriarchs would make requests to Rome for priests to fill in shortages (that contact is how the Melkite Catholics got started, but it was slow).  But that original, continuing jurisdiction was key.  The Popes never denied that the Eastern Churches existed in continuity, and have always attempted reconciliation with their bishops rather than replacement,

The SSPX situation is very different; in some ways much better, in some ways worse off.  There is no continuing jurisdiction with the past, though there is with the Campos situation.

Thank you for that.

You are welcome; in spite of how it might appear lately, I really am sympathetic with the Society.  When I make a parallel to the Orthodox, I do it to express my fear of what could go wrong: the EO started as good Catholics resisting what they saw as authority abused.  I get really concerned when I see folks recreate Orthodox arguments without even knowing it: those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it, and all that (on the other hand, history never repeats itself, though it often rhymes).
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