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Children at the NO: Is it confusing for them?
#21
(11-14-2012, 06:29 PM)Old Salt Wrote:
(11-14-2012, 04:29 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(11-14-2012, 04:15 PM)Old Salt Wrote: As a child in the late 60's early 70's there was only NO Mass availble.

Our parents had no choice but to bring us to that to fulfill the obligation.

My first TLM was at my uncles ordination in 1983.

Were your folks trads?
How do you measure that as them being "trads"?

They were Catholic if that is what you mean.

Well, your uncle had to find out about the SSPX, so im guessing your family had to be at least knowledgeable and sympathetic to the Archbishop.

On the other hand, my family had no idea of who Marcel Lefebvre was.
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#22
(11-14-2012, 06:34 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(11-14-2012, 06:29 PM)Old Salt Wrote:
(11-14-2012, 04:29 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(11-14-2012, 04:15 PM)Old Salt Wrote: As a child in the late 60's early 70's there was only NO Mass availble.

Our parents had no choice but to bring us to that to fulfill the obligation.

My first TLM was at my uncles ordination in 1983.

Were your folks trads?
How do you measure that as them being "trads"?

They were Catholic if that is what you mean.

Well, your uncle had to find out about the SSPX, so im guessing your family had to be at least knowledgeable and sympathetic to the Archbishop.

On the other hand, my family had no idea of who Marcel Lefebvre was.
My parents raised us all with the Baltimore Catechism and sound whoopings if we were caught in sin.

They took us to daily Mass and we said the family rosary frequently
.
My uncle found out about the SSPX on his own.

As far as I know my parents had no opinion of the Society.

They were too busy raising 5 kids.
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#23
I grew up with NO only. I was a baby when it all was changed. I remember vestiges of the TLM as though in a dream, sort of. I remember some of the changes as they occurred. But I didn't even know the TLM still existed until I got on the internet like around 7 or 8 years ago.

So I married in the NO. My husband wants the Mass in English and of course, as a result my children are what you might call "mixed". Mostly the older two go to the NO with my husband, and the three younger three go to the TLM with me. We're clearly one religion, we pray the rosary together ad have a very Catholic household here, but the kids all know there's a big difference. No confusion about that. How it got that away? Yes, that's confusing. Does it undermine their faith? I'm not really sure. I hope not.
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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#24
I was born in 1977 and only had the NO; in fact, I didn't know about the TLM until after my second return to Catholicism, at  age 32. As devout and traditional as my NO parish was, they were nonetheless deficient in a few things, one of which was educating children about traditional Catholic worship. I don't fault them necessarily--they were just following orders.

I was never confused by the NO as a child; for my part, I always had a deep respect for the faith, due to my parents and my schooling. The NO always seemed cut-and-dry, easy to understand; for what it's worth, I had just as easy a time with the TLM when I finally discovered it.

The only thing that confuses me about the NO is how it could have been settled for or tolerated in the first place. Even the devout and by-the-book NO my old parish offered up pales in comparison to the simple Missa Lecta I and my son go to each Sunday morning.

On a side note, my three-year old loves going to the TLM with me, often asking before bed during the week about going to see "Jesus onna cross" and "Mary our mama". He's a little fidgety, but not loud or disturbing like he was when I started bringing him; he's acclimated well to it. With as weird as he can be with strangers, part of me suspects that it's easier to enjoy the TLM for him than the NO, what with people all of a sudden breaking out into singing/caterwauling and thrusting hands over his head from all directions and so forth. At the TLM, everyone's calm, focused, and aside from the occasional cranky baby, there's nothing to distract him or wind him up.

I hope I don't have to subject him to the NO for years, and only rarely at that.
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#25
(11-13-2012, 06:18 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: By child I mean "in the care of parents."  So whether that's when you were 6 or 17 or whatever.  Those who weren't raised Catholic don't really have an option. 

JayneK claims that the only reason a child would think that they are attending liturgies for two different religions is if a misguided adult told them that.  I thought it would be interesting to see if that's the case.  Not that this poll would be authoritative, but it's always nice to get an idea from the forum.

Ahh I have a personal story here. I dated a girl who was Protestant back in High School. First we went to the local TLM then the next Sunday St Social Justice parishes Novus Ordo. After the NO she said and I quote "wow that was JUST like my Lutheran service, THAT was Catholic!?" Nuff said.    Now imagine a childs reaction.
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#26
(11-14-2012, 08:31 PM)The Dying Flutchman Wrote:
(11-13-2012, 06:18 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: By child I mean "in the care of parents."  So whether that's when you were 6 or 17 or whatever.  Those who weren't raised Catholic don't really have an option. 

JayneK claims that the only reason a child would think that they are attending liturgies for two different religions is if a misguided adult told them that.  I thought it would be interesting to see if that's the case.  Not that this poll would be authoritative, but it's always nice to get an idea from the forum.

Ahh I have a personal story here. I dated a girl who was Protestant back in High School. First we went to the local TLM then the next Sunday St Social Justice parishes Novus Ordo. After the NO she said and I quote "wow that was JUST like my Lutheran service, THAT was Catholic!?" Nuff said.    Now imagine a childs reaction.

When I visited my friend in Florida, I conversed with his 12 year old sister, who goes to a Lutheran school. Their family is NO, but they only occasionally attend. The little sister innocently  told me that the Catholic masses and Lutheran services are so similar each other that she really cannot tell them apart. The only difference , she related,  was that in the Lutheran service at her school, they receive the communion kneeling and on the tongue, unlike in the Novus Ordo. Truly, nothing can be sadder than this reality.
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#27
(11-14-2012, 08:31 PM)The Dying Flutchman Wrote:
(11-13-2012, 06:18 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: By child I mean "in the care of parents."  So whether that's when you were 6 or 17 or whatever.  Those who weren't raised Catholic don't really have an option. 

JayneK claims that the only reason a child would think that they are attending liturgies for two different religions is if a misguided adult told them that.  I thought it would be interesting to see if that's the case.  Not that this poll would be authoritative, but it's always nice to get an idea from the forum.

Ahh I have a personal story here. I dated a girl who was Protestant back in High School. First we went to the local TLM then the next Sunday St Social Justice parishes Novus Ordo. After the NO she said and I quote "wow that was JUST like my Lutheran service, THAT was Catholic!?" Nuff said.    Now imagine a childs reaction.

That was my wife's reaction to the NO.  She was raised Lutheran as well.
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#28
(11-14-2012, 08:43 PM)Christknight104 Wrote: When I visited my friend in Florida, I conversed with his 12 year old sister, who goes to a Lutheran school. Their family is NO, but they only occasionally attend. The little sister innocently  told me that the Catholic masses and Lutheran services are so similar each other that she really cannot tell them apart. The only difference , she related,  was that in the Lutheran service at her school, they receive the communion kneeling and on the tongue, unlike in the Novus Ordo. Truly, nothing can be sadder than this reality.

So true; I noticed the same thing when I went to services here and there at my in-laws'/wife's Lutheran church here in town. A near-perfect copy of the NO, but with COTT--unlike every Catholic church in the area, save for the ICKSP chapel I and my son go to.

Words fail.
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#29
(11-13-2012, 07:04 PM)Scriptorium Wrote: This presupposes that the Novus Ordo liturgy is the common one: ad populum, popular styled music, slovenly and immodest dress, chatter, lack of reverence, eucharistic ministers, etc. etc. See Mith wants to try to make a case for the nature of the NO, but his question will only prove what people have experienced in this time of crisis.

How about you sit little Timmy down to see a papal Mass, or Bishop Slattery's ad orientem Mass, then show him the average trad Mass. See what he says then. Everyone already agrees that the NO as celebrated in most parishes today is quite deficient.

Note I grew up with the NO. I never knew there was a "traditional Mass" until I was in my twenties.

If I grew up in Russia attending beautiful, full of smells, bells, incense, and icons at Divine Liturgies with Russian metropolitans, then convert to Catholicism, the average Russian schismatic albeit liturgically pious liturgy would appear much better than the average trad Mass.

Why would I take children to something that's a "striking departure" from Trent?

Finally, the NO has only existed in a time of crisis. Not surprisingly. 
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#30
(11-15-2012, 01:09 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(11-13-2012, 07:04 PM)Scriptorium Wrote: This presupposes that the Novus Ordo liturgy is the common one: ad populum, popular styled music, slovenly and immodest dress, chatter, lack of reverence, eucharistic ministers, etc. etc. See Mith wants to try to make a case for the nature of the NO, but his question will only prove what people have experienced in this time of crisis.

How about you sit little Timmy down to see a papal Mass, or Bishop Slattery's ad orientem Mass, then show him the average trad Mass. See what he says then. Everyone already agrees that the NO as celebrated in most parishes today is quite deficient.

Note I grew up with the NO. I never knew there was a "traditional Mass" until I was in my twenties.

If I grew up in Russia attending beautiful, full of smells, bells, incense, and icons at Divine Liturgies with Russian metropolitans, then convert to Catholicism, the average Russian schismatic albeit liturgically pious liturgy would appear much better than the average trad Mass.

Why would I take children to something that's a "striking departure" from Trent?

Finally, the NO has only existed in a time of crisis. Not surprisingly. 

You prove my point, though. I already showed you that most people worship through the smells and bells, and not the texts. The premise that people lose the Faith because the New Mass doesn't express the doctrines of the Council of Trent is absolutely absurd. To the average medieval parishioner, the Mass of their time didn't express the doctrines taught in the Council of Trent either, because they didn't understand the language, and the meat and potatoes of the Mass text were silent. See the point? 99% of people rise and fall by smells and bells or lack thereof.
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