Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT?
#21
(12-18-2012, 09:14 AM)ggreg Wrote: He was mentally ill with Aspergers so yes, why not?

He might not have been fully culpable for his actions.

Hitler or Stalin or Mao as far as we know we're not suffering from Autism.

I suffer from lack of nookey.  Then I should not be culpable if I rape someone. 
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#22
I will admit I struggle with this one in the face of true evil like this man.  Christ did say to pray for our enemies but He also did say things like this as well:

"But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea." Matthew 18:6.

and He does say this about Judas:

"The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed: it were better for him, if that man had not been born. "  Matthew 26:24

As a father of a young girl I don't think I can bring myself to pray for the shooter.  I can and will pray for his family and his mother.
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#23
(12-18-2012, 10:12 AM)jacobhalo Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 09:14 AM)ggreg Wrote: He was mentally ill with Aspergers so yes, why not?

He might not have been fully culpable for his actions.

Hitler or Stalin or Mao as far as we know we're not suffering from Autism.

I suffer from lack of nookey.  Then I should not be culpable if I rape someone. 

Disgusting

Mods this is getting pitiful.  >:(
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#24
The problem is that people mix up forgiving  and mercy with sanctioning sin. That is far from Catholic teaching. We are to forgive readily. We are to have mercy on our neighbor. But this doesn't mean we approve the sin, or that a judge, for instance, would exercise his mercy in a way that would endanger the community. We should pray for this man genuinely. We are not God. We see the external. We only have knowledge of our own souls. No one else's. It is a sin of pride and presumption that someone is not worthy of our prayers. It is also a sin against the universal will of God to save soul. It is God's decision who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, not ours. This man sinned exceedingly in the objective order that we can perceive. But none of us can read his souls. Nor do any of us know whether each murder victim forgave this man at their dying breath, in an imitation of St Mary Goretti. We do not know if he had a moment of lucidity in which he saw the gravity of his demonic act. We need not excuse the evil, but just treating our neighbor as we wish to be treated. God is the judge of eternal souls. We manage external affairs for the common good. Don't mix these things up!
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#25
I haven't prayed for him and I don't think I will.

Mentally ill or no, we are still accountable for our actions on some level or another. Otherwise, why do we expect that anyone can live among anyone else?

It is a spiritual work of mercy to pray for the dead. But right now, I don't care.
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#26
(12-18-2012, 08:46 AM)jacobhalo Wrote: You don't know if he died in mortal sin?  Are you simple?  The man was evil.  He was the son of the devil.  What did he do? say an act of contrition after he shot those people and before he shot himself?  Did Hitler die in mortal sin? Did he say an Act of Contrition before he died? If either of the above are not in hell, then there is no hell.  People, let's get real!!

What about mass murderers who don't kill themselves and do make an act of contrition?  Gilles de Rais not only killed dozens more children than Adam Lanza, but he sodomized and tortured many of his victims before he slew them, and he died a penitent Catholic.  Should he go to hell, too?  Does it matter whether a person has five months to regret his crimes or a split second?  We should all hope for the latter.

(12-18-2012, 08:47 AM)jacobhalo Wrote: Throw him into hell!!

Not your call to make.

(12-18-2012, 10:12 AM)jacobhalo Wrote: I suffer from lack of nookey.  Then I should not be culpable if I rape someone. 

Judging by your high-strung comments on this thread, the first sentence is quite likely true.  The second, unfortunately, is just repugnant -- and doesn't follow.
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#27
(12-18-2012, 10:12 AM)jacobhalo Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 09:14 AM)ggreg Wrote: He was mentally ill with Aspergers so yes, why not?

He might not have been fully culpable for his actions.

Hitler or Stalin or Mao as far as we know we're not suffering from Autism.

I suffer from lack of nookey.  Then I should not be culpable if I rape someone. 

Not really the same thing as having Asperges syndrome is it?

But since you are obviously a little unhinged I would certainly pray for you.
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#28
(12-18-2012, 11:01 AM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote: I haven't prayed for him and I don't think I will.

Mentally ill or no, we are still accountable for our actions on some level or another. Otherwise, why do we expect that anyone can live among anyone else?

It is a spiritual work of mercy to pray for the dead. But right now, I don't care.

I would not go out of my way to pray for him, but it is difficult to judge an autistic person's state of mind, since it is difficult to understand what they understand about what they are doing. They don't have the empathy of a normal person.

I certainly think it makes more sense to pray for Adam Lanza than it does to pray for Hitler, Stalin or Mao who killed millions with enough clear headed rationality to be able to hold onto supreme power for a decade or more.
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#29
(12-18-2012, 02:25 PM)ggreg Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 10:12 AM)jacobhalo Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 09:14 AM)ggreg Wrote: He was mentally ill with Aspergers so yes, why not?

He might not have been fully culpable for his actions.

Hitler or Stalin or Mao as far as we know we're not suffering from Autism.

I suffer from lack of nookey.  Then I should not be culpable if I rape someone. 

Not really the same thing as having Asperges syndrome is it?

But since you are obviously a little unhinged I would certainly pray for you.
 

Lanza knew exactly what he was doing.  Before the crime, he cleared his hard drive of any incriminating evidence.
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#30
(12-17-2012, 11:11 PM)Scriptorium Wrote: Our religion is replete with teachings to love and pray for our enemies. And there is no reason to exempt the dead.

Mt 5:44 Wrote:But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.

Rm 12:14 Wrote:Bless those who persecute [you], bless and do not curse them.

I Pt 3:9 Wrote:Do not return evil for evil, or insult for insult; but, on the contrary, a blessing, because to this you were called, that you might inherit a blessing.


When a tree doesn't produce, cut it down.
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