Pope Francis is shaking things up, and the Conservatives don't like it

[Maldon]

2Vermont,
I understand your position, but I still think I am right. However, they would 'feel' closer, would 'feel' as though they have a lot more in common with each other than with "conservative catholics". But this is feeling, not reality. In the Catholic Church, the idea of the pope is so radical that everything must change depending on whether you believe the man in Rome to be the rightful pope or not. If not, you have absolutely no business listening to him, not for one second, because he is an imposter, and this would be the same even if you had a more trad pope. A man purporting to be pope who is in fact not pope, but is in fact trad in liturgical matters is an imposter and to be shunned, to the same extent that we have to obey, in matters of faith and morals, a man who is pope, though he be clueless on liturgical matters. An imposter-pope is the closest thing to Antichrist you can get, be he never so liturgically wonderful and full of finery and sedes gestatoriae.

Thus, to put the argument to its extreme, if Abp. Lefebvre thought that the pope was an imposter, there would be no SSPX today. There would be no FSSP either. There would only be sedes vs pagans. History would be so radically different, as it has to be when we make that call about the legitimacy of a pope. But as to the idea that we could do good by creating a schism against a rightful but clueless pope there can be no mistake: we would all meet in hell, and no good could come of it.

[Tim]

2Vermont,
I understand your position, but I still think I am right. However, they would 'feel' closer, would 'feel' as though they have a lot more in common with each other than with "conservative catholics". But this is feeling, not reality. In the Catholic Church, the idea of the pope is so radical that everything must change depending on whether you believe the man in Rome to be the rightful pope or not. If not, you have absolutely no business listening to him, not for one second, because he is an imposter, and this would be the same even if you had a more trad pope. A man purporting to be pope who is in fact not pope, but is in fact trad in liturgical matters is an imposter and to be shunned, to the same extent that we have to obey, in matters of faith and morals, a man who is pope, though he be clueless on liturgical matters. An imposter-pope is the closest thing to Antichrist you can get, be he never so liturgically wonderful and full of finery and sedes gestatoriae.

Thus, to put the argument to its extreme, if Abp. Lefebvre thought that the pope was an imposter, there would be no SSPX today. There would be no FSSP either. There would only be sedes vs pagans. History would be so radically different, as it has to be when we make that call about the legitimacy of a pope. But as to the idea that we could do good by creating a schism against a rightful but clueless pope there can be no mistake: we would all meet in hell, and no good could come of it.

:tiphat: :salute: :pray: :w2go:

tim

[2Vermont]

My husband mentioned something to this effect although he seems to think we're at Holy Saturday.

when i read this i was a little shocked because i thought you were a man.   :blush:

LOL...You have no idea how many folks have said that to me.

Maybe I really am???!!!

[DustinsDad]

My husband mentioned something to this effect although he seems to think we're at Holy Saturday.

when i read this i was a little shocked because i thought you were a man.   :blush:

LOL...You have no idea how many folks have said that to me.

Maybe I really am???!!!

Don't go there. Been enough of that here already. Lol.

[2Vermont]

My husband mentioned something to this effect although he seems to think we're at Holy Saturday.

when i read this i was a little shocked because i thought you were a man.   :blush:

LOL...You have no idea how many folks have said that to me.

Maybe I really am???!!!

Don't go there. Been enough of that here already. Lol.

::snort::

[iona_scribe]

They'll come around.

Remember folks, if you see a new family walk into your Mass and sit down in the pew near you, smile at them. Then introduce yourself in the vestibule afterwards. A little goes a long way toward countering the misconceptions and making it a welcoming environment for people seeking refuge.

[PurposefulMother]

They'll come around.

Remember folks, if you see a new family walk into your Mass and sit down in the pew near you, smile at them. Then introduce yourself in the vestibule afterwards. A little goes a long way toward countering the misconceptions and making it a welcoming environment for people seeking refuge.

I agree! :)
When we were first coming into traditionalism, it was because we felt that JPII was a little too butt-kissy with proud enemies of the church.
We were personally offended that he apologized for the church's "silence" during the holocaust, but being the history buffs that we are, we knew the church was never silent and often priests and nuns risked their lives to hide and emigrate Jewish children and families to safe areas. But the media and thus the world, ate it all up with a golden spoon. We were shocked that such lies would be spoken by a pope and consider going full orthodox often. Then Benedict came in and we thought "now here's a real pope!" Then he retired and now we have Francis. We are losing faith in him daily.

But when we began to shift towards traditionalism, we were met with suspicion. No one wants to talk to us, help us or be friendly, so it seems that  to the newcomer, the spirit of Christ is only spoken of. It's harsh, but that's how it feels. We should open our hearts and arms to everyone, no matter their ultimate intentions because the line in the sand is being drawn and soon we'll see a polarization between liberal pro-abort pseudocatholics, and actual catholics.

[Asperges me]

They'll come around.

Remember folks, if you see a new family walk into your Mass and sit down in the pew near you, smile at them. Then introduce yourself in the vestibule afterwards. A little goes a long way toward countering the misconceptions and making it a welcoming environment for people seeking refuge.

Funny you should mention that. At the Latin Mass yesterday a couple sat in front of me. Soon enough it was apparent that they have never been to a Latin Mass. The woman kept shaking her head and the man said, "That was strange." They couldn't wait to head for the doors.

[iona_scribe]

They'll come around.

Remember folks, if you see a new family walk into your Mass and sit down in the pew near you, smile at them. Then introduce yourself in the vestibule afterwards. A little goes a long way toward countering the misconceptions and making it a welcoming environment for people seeking refuge.

Funny you should mention that. At the Latin Mass yesterday a couple sat in front of me. Soon enough it was apparent that they have never been to a Latin Mass. The woman kept shaking her head and the man said, "That was strange." They couldn't wait to head for the doors.

:LOL:  I've seen that happen sometimes too. Sometimes people have guests, or maybe they wander in expecting a Novus Ordo and got the time mixed up.  I always pray for them that seeds would be planted. Whenever we invite a friend or relative to come along, they always admit that it was beautiful even if their ideology dictates that they should dislike it.  :grin:  Also, I feel like it's good for people to see a lady with a head covering, modest clothes, and small children who is also happy and not supposedly oppressed. ;)

[karl]

They'll come around.

Remember folks, if you see a new family walk into your Mass and sit down in the pew near you, smile at them. Then introduce yourself in the vestibule afterwards. A little goes a long way toward countering the misconceptions and making it a welcoming environment for people seeking refuge.

I thought you were supposed to look at them suspiciously, and then scowl through out the entire Mass because she's wearing pants and no veil and he doesn't have a suit on. :shame:

Is there a sarcasm emotocon?