Pope Francis is shaking things up, and the Conservatives don't like it
#61
(08-20-2013, 02:16 PM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 12:42 PM)Tim Wrote: Miriam, I have seen more than one priest that doesn't want the folks to recite the Pater Noster and that was Pope Pius XII's addition. The priests must lead the way just like it says in Vatican II. They must teach us the Latin responses and the chanting. My thoughts are if they chant the Gloria, Credo, Suscipiat, Sanctus, and the Pater Noster they will get over themselves.

Did you misunderstand me? Or did I mis-communicate?

(I did say that I sing along with the choir, when the choir sings the Latin responses, and at no other times, out of respect for the celebrant.)

Yep, it was more I wanted to say more and not contra what you said. More "and" than "instead" of what you wrote. Sorry didn't mean to sting you.

Chris Ferrara in a Church Militant video spoke directly to why the neo-con falls in line. First he has invested his life in these changes and no one wants to admit this is a failure. Second the modernists within the Sanctuary has changed stuff drip, drip, drip, and he has been conditioned to go with every new change. The last reason we can't get through to them, is many of them hold to the faith, and practice devotions, have large good families, and being invested in the new springtime, wonder why we are pissing and moaning. It comes down to the meta-physics as a braniac told me. That's before they analyze the facts, because of their pre-disposition, they're not going to believe the conclusion.

As far as the silent Low Mass, when we get back to packed Churches like before Vatican II, they'll have three or four every morning including Sunday before the sung Masses. Right now it's two Masses per Sunday, it was eight before this cataclysm. But even back then folks would respond if they knew the Latin at 5:00 am.
Reply
#62
(08-20-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: This rings so true to me.  I can no longer sit in the pew, shut up and settle in for yet another change.  Sitting in the (NO) pew has been an occasion of sin for me.

Hi 2Vermont, you have my curiosity.  How many Novus Ordo changes have you lived through?  How has sitting through the Novus Ordo, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, been an occasion of sin for you?  Did you go to Mass before 1969?  I have been to many reverent Novus Ordo Masses, so I am having a hard time identifying with you.  Perhaps you will enlighten me.  I'm not baiting you here, ok?

Thanks, Lumine
Reply
#63
(08-20-2013, 04:51 PM)lumine Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: This rings so true to me.  I can no longer sit in the pew, shut up and settle in for yet another change.  Sitting in the (NO) pew has been an occasion of sin for me.

Hi 2Vermont, you have my curiosity.  How many Novus Ordo changes have you lived through?  How has sitting through the Novus Ordo, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, been an occasion of sin for you?  Did you go to Mass before 1969?  I have been to many reverent Novus Ordo Masses, so I am having a hard time identifying with you.  Perhaps you will enlighten me.  I'm not baiting you here, ok?

Thanks, Lumine

***Edit***I hit post before I actually got my answer typed here. I'm not 2Vermont but I've had the same experience. I started attending Catholic Masses almost 20 years before I finally swam the Tiber over 30 years ago, so I started while the Council was still sitting. I've lived through and observed all the changes to the Liturgy since the Council. I've never seen a 'clown Mass' or anything else that bad, tho' I was, once, subjected to a middle aged nun in a leotard doing 'liturgical dance' during Mass. On the other hand, while I've attended many reverent NO Masses, I've also attended many where the blatant disobedience to the rubrics and the law of the Church regarding the celebration of Holy Mass were so bad that I could confess the night before, enter the Church in a state of grace, and by Communion time be so sinfully angry that I could not receive Holy Communion. That is a scandal in the strict sense of the word.
Reply
#64
(08-20-2013, 01:50 PM)SpiderDweeb Wrote:
(08-17-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: Generally speaking, I don't feel a hatred towards trads, but I do think that given enough time the "conservs" will join ranks with the trads.  Not too long ago I would have called myself a conservative, not a Trad. 

Added:  I wanted to add to the above that what I meant by "I don't feel" was  that I don't get a personal feeling of hatred towards me, a Trad.  Now if I go on CAF, that's a whole different ballgame.
However, when I see a parish priest needing special permission to have weekly TLM, then I start to go  :hmmm:

I don't believe the majority of neo con Catholics will side with trads when it comes down to taking sides.  I've been friends with many neo con's in the past and all it takes is for some Catholic Answers spokesman to perform mental gymnastics to put their minds at ease and they quickly except some new modernist play thing.  They may not like it, but they will go along to get along. 

A future example may be;

Pope Francis allows for women "deacons".  The Vatican will refer to them as, "extraordinary deacon's" who's so purpose is to assist the church in a minor capacity, such as the deaconess mentioned in one of the epistles (I forget which one).  Of course the Vatican will allow this knowing full well that through abuse, these deaconess will be baptizing, preaching and performing other duties that used to be reserved for the priest alone.  They will even prepare special vestments for them.  This will be considered a great accomplishment and pastoral event for the Church to the modernist.  One extra step out of the dark ages, so to speak. 

Naturally, the neo cons will be upset.  Groups such as Catholic Answers will be out in full battle dress to quickly quiet things down and explain how the Church cannot error and this will be good for the Church, we must trust the Magisterium and by the way the Pope mentioned he liked the Blessed Virgin so he's one of us.  The neo cons, who set side by side with the modernist in the pew at any given N.O. parish, will shut up, know their place and quickly settle in for yet another change.   

Oh how you nailed it!
Reply
#65
(08-20-2013, 04:51 PM)lumine Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: This rings so true to me.  I can no longer sit in the pew, shut up and settle in for yet another change.  Sitting in the (NO) pew has been an occasion of sin for me.

Hi 2Vermont, you have my curiosity.  How many Novus Ordo changes have you lived through?  How has sitting through the Novus Ordo, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, been an occasion of sin for you?  Did you go to Mass before 1969?  I have been to many reverent Novus Ordo Masses, so I am having a hard time identifying with you.  Perhaps you will enlighten me.  I'm not baiting you here, ok?

Thanks, Lumine

You sure do sound like you're baiting me, but I'll respond initially.  My husband will always find something wrong at a NO Mass...ALWAYS (and as much as I would argue with him at the time, I now see that more times than not he is absolutely right).  There was a time when I had NO ISSUES with the NO at all (and I am a convert so I never attended Mass prior to 1969).  I find that, since reading up on Traditional Catholicism, I am more aware and pick up on things that I wouldn't pick up on in the past. When I go to a NO Mass now, I pray to God that the priest won't say something heretical or questionable.  Right before the homily, I am anxious.  The last NO mass I went to was blatantly heretical when the deacon offered a homily about how all religions worship the same God and how we're all destined for Heaven.  Since attending the TLM when I can, the difference is just so palatable in every way. Bottom line, the connection with the NO mass and VII are just too close for comfort.  It makes sense that since I have issues with VII that it spills over into mass.

Reply
#66
(08-20-2013, 05:06 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 04:51 PM)lumine Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: This rings so true to me.  I can no longer sit in the pew, shut up and settle in for yet another change.  Sitting in the (NO) pew has been an occasion of sin for me.

Hi 2Vermont, you have my curiosity.  How many Novus Ordo changes have you lived through?  How has sitting through the Novus Ordo, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, been an occasion of sin for you?  Did you go to Mass before 1969?  I have been to many reverent Novus Ordo Masses, so I am having a hard time identifying with you.  Perhaps you will enlighten me.  I'm not baiting you here, ok?

Thanks, Lumine

It appears that your comments weren't posted Jovan, whatever they were.  However, my question is addressed to 2Vermont, thank you.
Reply
#67
(08-20-2013, 05:09 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 04:51 PM)lumine Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: This rings so true to me.  I can no longer sit in the pew, shut up and settle in for yet another change.  Sitting in the (NO) pew has been an occasion of sin for me.

Hi 2Vermont, you have my curiosity.  How many Novus Ordo changes have you lived through?  How has sitting through the Novus Ordo, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, been an occasion of sin for you?  Did you go to Mass before 1969?  I have been to many reverent Novus Ordo Masses, so I am having a hard time identifying with you.  Perhaps you will enlighten me.  I'm not baiting you here, ok?

Thanks, Lumine

You sure do sound like you're baiting me, but I'll respond initially.  My husband will always find something wrong at a NO Mass...ALWAYS (and as much as I would argue with him at the time, I now see that more times than not he is absolutely right).  There was a time when I had NO ISSUES with the NO at all (and I am a convert so I never attended Mass prior to 1969).  I find that, since reading up on Traditional Catholicism, I am more aware and pick up on things that I wouldn't pick up on in the past. When I go to a NO Mass now, I pray to God that the priest won't say something heretical or questionable.  Right before the homily, I am anxious.  The last NO mass I went to was blatantly heretical when the deacon offered a homily about how all religions worship the same God and how we're all destined for Heaven.  Since attending the TLM when I can, the difference is just so palatable in every way. Bottom line, the connection with the NO mass and VII are just too close for comfort.  It makes sense that since I have issues with VII that it spills over into mass.

Thanks for your answer.  Did your husband grow up actively Catholic, or is he a convert, too?
Reply
#68
(08-20-2013, 05:12 PM)lumine Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 05:09 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 04:51 PM)lumine Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: This rings so true to me.  I can no longer sit in the pew, shut up and settle in for yet another change.  Sitting in the (NO) pew has been an occasion of sin for me.

Hi 2Vermont, you have my curiosity.  How many Novus Ordo changes have you lived through?  How has sitting through the Novus Ordo, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, been an occasion of sin for you?  Did you go to Mass before 1969?  I have been to many reverent Novus Ordo Masses, so I am having a hard time identifying with you.  Perhaps you will enlighten me.  I'm not baiting you here, ok?

Thanks, Lumine

You sure do sound like you're baiting me, but I'll respond initially.  My husband will always find something wrong at a NO Mass...ALWAYS (and as much as I would argue with him at the time, I now see that more times than not he is absolutely right).  There was a time when I had NO ISSUES with the NO at all (and I am a convert so I never attended Mass prior to 1969).  I find that, since reading up on Traditional Catholicism, I am more aware and pick up on things that I wouldn't pick up on in the past. When I go to a NO Mass now, I pray to God that the priest won't say something heretical or questionable.  Right before the homily, I am anxious.  The last NO mass I went to was blatantly heretical when the deacon offered a homily about how all religions worship the same God and how we're all destined for Heaven.  Since attending the TLM when I can, the difference is just so palatable in every way. Bottom line, the connection with the NO mass and VII are just too close for comfort.  It makes sense that since I have issues with VII that it spills over into mass.

Thanks for your answer.  Did your husband grow up actively Catholic, or is he a convert, too?

Yes, he was baptized a Catholic as an infant.  He has sensed something wrong in the Catholic Church for years.  He's just recently become very vocal about it.
Reply
#69
I'm not 2Vermont but, even at the best NO Mass, the presence of all ministers of communion, the altar girls, the altar boys with goofy gym shoes, the folks in the pew wearing their next activity's clothes, like golfing or brunch, the anticipation that this will be entertaining, because Joey Baloney is playing the gi-tar, all work to diminish the Mass and the True and Real Presence. It's conditioning, after so much time the more conservative parishoners become americanist heretics. In Europe they became modernists but here they became Democrats (liberals) and Republicans (neo-cons). I'm sure you've heard we can change the HHS mandate by appealing to our right to Freedom of Religion.

You bet we can ! Obama said so.

tim
Reply
#70
(08-20-2013, 05:17 PM)Tim Wrote: the anticipation that this will be entertaining, because Joey Baloney is playing the gi-tar,

:LOL:

It is the Protestant flavor that I'm noticing more and more.  The music is getting more and more annoying.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)