A Single Post That Explains Why Toxic Trads Are Not Welcome Here
(10-27-2013, 05:49 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: I haven't left the Faith. All other religions are false. But I won't come back to Mass and Confession until He cures me first. I don't want to be like this for the rest of my life. Otherwise, I'm not a man but a sub-human freak, not loved enough to be cured but to be treated like a punching bag in a boxers gym. And who really loves a punching bag?

So long as He keeps allowing me to be broken, mentally and physically, He is hurting me. How can I love Him 100% when He keeps allowing me to be in pain and mentally ill? Please keep praying for me so I don't go to Hell after death and stop running from Him in this life. thank you in advance.

I just typed a long-ass reply to all this and then lost it all due to some "Session Timeout" from the message board.  So.... I will try to recreate what I typed before.  GRRRRRRRR>...
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Just thought I'd drop in to say I highly approve of the replacement of 'rad trad' with 'toxic trad'.  I generally consider myself a 'rad trad', and consider that a good thing.

But then, my mother always said I was very contrary.
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(10-27-2013, 07:25 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 07:18 PM)HailGilbert Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 05:52 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: I see that you're angry with Our Lord.

His crucifixion is His answer to you.

It's the only answer you will receive. Take it or leave it.

Then I leave it. He doesn't love me enough.  :'(

He loves you enough to suffer and die for you.  He loves you enough to make your own suffering redemptive for yourself and others through the power of His Cross.  He loves you so much it would make your head explode.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but I think you need to hear this.  You're indulging self-pity and you're blaspheming.  This is worse than any illness.

Our Lord's greatest gift to you in this life may be your illnesses.  If you asked Him to heal you and He hasn't, then His answer is either "no" or "not yet."  That's the way it is.  You can be 100% certain that His reasons are right on the money.  Allow yourself to just be broken.  Let go of the pride and the demands.  Trust Him.

I'm sorry that you're suffering.  I will pray for your healing, but also your spiritual recovery.

If I "let go", then things will get only worse, not better. I'd rather kill myself than remain broken if His answer is "no". I won't trust Him if I remain like this. To say otherwise would be lying to myself and to you and everyone on FE and I won't do that. You have all been so generous with your prayers and conversation for me, so I'm not going to yank anyone's chain on something as important as this.

You don't want me to keep this up, Lord, then cure me. Please! I don't want to be a saint or end up in Hell. Let me be normal.

Thank you, at the very least, for letting me vent my spleen and lancing this boil of my spirit. Again, thank you.
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(10-27-2013, 09:27 PM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote: Just thought I'd drop in to say I highly approve of the replacement of 'rad trad' with 'toxic trad'.  I generally consider myself a 'rad trad', and consider that a good thing.

But then, my mother always said I was very contrary.

Hey, JuniorCouncilor! Been a while! Good to see you :)

Yeah, I am glad folks talked me out of that. "Rad trad" is used by our enemies to mean ALL trads -- anyone who doesn't simply "prefer" the TLM, but knows it is vastly superior in all ways but one.  So using "Toxic Trad" makes clear (I hope, anyway) that I do NOT mean serious, on-fire, adamant trads who know the Faith, defend the Faith, and wouldn't "sell out" a single drop of it.  "Rad" comes from the word for "root," so even etymologically, "Toxic Trad" makes more sense...  Plus, there have been good trads I know who call themselves "rad trads" as a badge of honor, sorta taking the phrase away from our enemies in the same way black people "took back" the N-word.  And on top of that, there was confusion about whether I mean folks who attend SSPX chapels or sedevacantists -- and the answer is definitely NO. So, I made a list to show what I consider "Toxic Trad" behaviors -- a list I might add to as I go along. Ha, I reckon it's like that one judge's take on porn: "I know a Toxic Trad when I see one." LOL



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(10-27-2013, 09:12 PM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 05:49 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: I haven't left the Faith. All other religions are false. But I won't come back to Mass and Confession until He cures me first. I don't want to be like this for the rest of my life. Otherwise, I'm not a man but a sub-human freak, not loved enough to be cured but to be treated like a punching bag in a boxers gym. And who really loves a punching bag?

So long as He keeps allowing me to be broken, mentally and physically, He is hurting me. How can I love Him 100% when He keeps allowing me to be in pain and mentally ill? Please keep praying for me so I don't go to Hell after death and stop running from Him in this life. thank you in advance.

I just typed a long-ass reply to all this and then lost it all due to some "Session Timeout" from the message board.  So.... I will try to recreate what I typed before.  GRRRRRRRR>...

:(  I HATE that!  "Grrrrr" is right! Sorry!  One way around that sort of thing -- something I try to keep in mind when writing long posts -- is to make your post first in a text file, like in Notepad or Wordpad. Save as you go along. Then copy-paste it into here, do the decorating, and post. That's saved me a NUMBER of times!
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(10-27-2013, 09:33 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: If I "let go", then things will get only worse, not better. I'd rather kill myself than remain broken if His answer is "no". I won't trust Him if I remain like this. To say otherwise would be lying to myself and to you and everyone on FE and I won't do that. You have all been so generous with your prayers and conversation for me, so I'm not going to yank anyone's chain on something as important as this.

You don't want me to keep this up, Lord, then cure me. Please! I don't want to be a saint or end up in Hell. Let me be normal.

Thank you, at the very least, for letting me vent my spleen and lancing this boil of my spirit. Again, thank you.

Gilbert, at the risk of asking questions that might be too personal (in which case, don't answer them! None of our business!), will you tell us the type of medical things you're going through -- at least in terms of symptoms that are causing you suffering? 

If a lot of pain is involved, do you have a PAIN DOCTOR -- one who specializes in the treatment of pain? Or at least a doctor who isn't afraid of opiates? A lot of people, doctors included, are afraid of opiates, but for those in chronic pain, opiates are often the best solution with the least bad side effects. Addiction is rarely a problem for people who are actually in pain (though you would, of course, become -- what's the word? "Acclimated'?)

Does your suffering involve curtailed movement? An inability to eat what you love? -- what exactly?

I ask not to be nosy (your medical information is completely your own business and none of mine) but out of thinking that in addition to the GOOD advice you're getting here about trusting in God, a more aggressive way of dealing temporally with what's messing you up might be in order.. Even if you don't answer such questions here, maybe you can think about this and try to find other ways to go about getting treated for whatever's going on with you...

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(10-27-2013, 05:49 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: I haven't left the Faith. All other religions are false. But I won't come back to Mass and Confession until He cures me first. I don't want to be like this for the rest of my life. Otherwise, I'm not a man but a sub-human freak, not loved enough to be cured but to be treated like a punching bag in a boxers gym. And who really loves a punching bag?

So long as He keeps allowing me to be broken, mentally and physically, He is hurting me. How can I love Him 100% when He keeps allowing me to be in pain and mentally ill? Please keep praying for me so I don't go to Hell after death and stop running from Him in this life. thank you in advance.

I'm so so sorry to hear that you have struggled with suicidal temptation and depression.  It is an awful thing to go through and especially hard to recover from if you have attempted.  It is so hard to think clearly when you are in pain, but I encourage you to cling to life, and to God, the source of all that is good and true.  Pain can cause you to have a sort of tunnel vision where you only see your immediate circumstances but not the greater context of your life.  It is like a sort of blinder that prevents you from seeing your past and future.  This is why it is so important to talk about it, to a spiritual director who can help you gain perspective, and also to God who does not see you as a sub-human freak but rather His beloved son for whom He has prepared a place in Heaven.  Cry out to Him.  If you feel like you're too angry to do that, cry out to His Blessed Mother!  Mary takes our imperfect prayers and transforms them into something infinitely more pleasing to God than anything our hearts can come up with.  If you are just too angry, pray the Rosary and look upon her face.  Lean on her and if you are too spiritually weak to approach God then she will carry you to Him.

Upon finding out that God had permitted the loss of his possessions and livestock and the death of his sons and daughters, Job ripped up his clothes, shaved his head and cried out: "Naked I came from my mother's womb, naked I shall return again. Yahweh gave, Yahweh has taken back. Blessed be the name of Yahweh!"  

It is true that God has the power to give and the power to take away.  It's hard sometimes to watch people go through life burdenless and painless, acquiring honor, wealth and women along the way, especially when you have difficulty with daily tasks of self care.  My wife and I went to the same alma mater and when we get the alumni magazine, we sometimes joke about how great everyone is doing.... "So-and-so is now running their own business and rescuing orphans in his spare time... So-and-so just finished the Boston Marathon, got his PhD and his wife is expecting their 3rd child...." blah blah blah, whereas my contribution to the class notes would probably say "Chestertonian has been putting his own pants on lately."  Some people seem to get all the breaks, but from God's perspective they might have a hard time getting to Heaven because some spend so much time pursuing earthly success and earthly wealth that they never give a moment to think about their treasures in Heaven.  Our Lord said it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich person to get to Heaven.  Think about that.  We live in one of the richest, and also healthiest countries in the world but from a spiritual perspective, America is destitute.  Why is this?  Because when your material needs are met and when you have instant pleasure at your disposal, you don't depend on God as much.  The man who lives paycheck to paycheck, or perhaps doesn't even have a paycheck, understands that he is vulnerable and thus has an easier time abandoning himself to Divine Providence.

Sometimes I wonder why the Lord permits me to suffer from physical and mental health problems.  I had a meaningful teaching career that I can't carry out anymore... why does it makes sense for Him to take it away?  I was in a better position to evangelize when I was teaching, I could have helped more people.  Why would He want me at home being cared for by nurses while my wife has to go out and work?  Why would He want her to work when it is much better for her (and our son) to be a home-maker?  Sometimes I'm just like "WTF God???"

But then sometimes I think about what I would do with my life if I had certain physical abilities back.  I wonder if I would have succumbed to certain vices I could only succumb to if I had health to go about them.  What if I had an affair?  What if I used my freedom and lack of physical limitation for evil?  What if I used my physical strength to hurt someone?  What if I let my success go to my head?  Sometimes the only way I can make sense of this is to just trust that God knows me more than I know myself.  He knows what sins I'm capable of, and perhaps He allows me to suffer in this way so that I might depend on Him more.  My wife has said the same thing.... she has told me that while she has no free time, she often remarks that it probably has kept her from becoming an alcoholic and "laying in a ditch somewhere."  Before I got so sick, she really had problems getting up in the morning.  I'd often have to wake her up several times and literally drag her out of bed.  Now not only does she get herself up out of bed at ungodly hours but she drags my sorry ass out of bed too.  It has both driven her insane and also changed her for the better, at least in that way.

Our God does not just sit there impotently watching His children suffer.  He allows it only because it is a consequence of human freedom and also because he can draw greater good from it.  Take him or leave him, but John Paul II said "God allows suffering but he does not enjoy it."  I know it is hard when pain keeps you from being able to see the potential for greater good.  Sometimes it just sucks ass and it feels like God isn't being fair... but like Vox said, sometimes we are like children and we don't see things the way our parents do.  But once we get older, we can sometimes see that the "unfair" things our parents said/did were really the best things that could have happened to us.

We don't know the reason why God allows certain people to suffer and certain people to have an easy life.  We don't know why God chooses to miraculously heal some but not others.  It's easy to feel abandoned when God says "Not now" to our petitions for healing.  But He has not abandoned you.  He has plans to give you a future and a hope.  He WILL heal you of every single physical and emotional hurt.  He WILL restore you completely.  I can't promise you that He will do it in this life, but He absolutely will, if you persevere to the end and attain Heaven.  If He does not heal your afflictions in this life, please do trust that it is for a reason.  We can't see the reasons why right now but when we have the Beatific Vision in Heaven we will see things as He sees them and we will know the reason.  Please do not put God's faithfulness and love to the test.  He really does want to help you carry your cross, He wants to walk that journey with you, giving you the graces you need to carry it.  If He does not heal you completely He does provide every spiritual grace to endure whatever suffering.  Don't turn your face away from Him and insist that you will only turn to Him if He heals you first.  There is nothing we can do to change the will of God.  Absolutely nothing we can do.  What we can do, is to allow God's grace to transform our hearts and minds.  His plan is for your everlasting joy, ask Him to conform your heart to embrace His will for you.  Pray the sorrowful mysteries and try to see Jesus through the eyes of His mother.  Look at Him in the garden of Gethsemane and see that He is weeping.  Those tears are for you.  He went through that suffering to give you hope of everlasting life.  He has not abandoned you, He is there with you in your suffering, crying when you cry, so that you might be able to experience the joy of the Resurrection.  

Even if he heals you in this life, your joy will still be imperfect compared to Heaven.  I am sure that after He told the crippled guy to "Get up and walk," the guy wasn't free from suffering for the rest of his life.  You can lose your financial security, your honor, your family and your health but if you don't have God you have nothing, and if you have God, you have everything.
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(10-27-2013, 10:21 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:33 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: If I "let go", then things will get only worse, not better. I'd rather kill myself than remain broken if His answer is "no". I won't trust Him if I remain like this. To say otherwise would be lying to myself and to you and everyone on FE and I won't do that. You have all been so generous with your prayers and conversation for me, so I'm not going to yank anyone's chain on something as important as this.

You don't want me to keep this up, Lord, then cure me. Please! I don't want to be a saint or end up in Hell. Let me be normal.

Thank you, at the very least, for letting me vent my spleen and lancing this boil of my spirit. Again, thank you.

Gilbert, at the risk of asking questions that might be too personal (in which case, don't answer them! None of our business!), will you tell us the type of medical things you're going through -- at least in terms of symptoms that are causing you suffering? 

If a lot of pain is involved, do you have a PAIN DOCTOR -- one who specializes in the treatment of pain? Or at least a doctor who isn't afraid of opiates? A lot of people, doctors included, are afraid of opiates, but for those in chronic pain, opiates are often the best solution with the least bad side effects. Addiction is rarely a problem for people who are actually in pain (though you would, of course, become -- what's the word? "Acclimated'?)

Does your suffering involve curtailed movement? An inability to eat what you love? -- what exactly?

I ask not to be nosy (your medical information is completely your own business and none of mine) but out of thinking that in addition to the GOOD advice you're getting here about trusting in God, a more aggressive way of dealing temporally with what's messing you up might be in order.. Even if you don't answer such questions here, maybe you can think about this and try to find other ways to go about getting treated for whatever's going on with you...

The main mental illness I have is Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD), which is a "cousin" to Obsessive Compulsive Disorder(OCD). Currently, over three million Americans are afflicted with this. Throw in the other "developed nations" like Canada, the UK, Japan and so on, then you have 2 out of every 100 people have OCPD. And the vast majority are in complete denial that they have something wrong with them.

That includes my Dad, who isn't formally diagnosed but has a lot of the symptoms. His verbal and emotional abuse of me when I was growing up - especially when he was drunk - broke my spirit. It is still broken today. Our relationship, since I moved out, is much, much better but the pain and anger towards him remains in the background.

Men are twice as likely to get OCPD than women.

So far, outside of Divine Intervention, there is no cure for OCPD. And antidepressants don't have any real effect in reversing it.

Here is a link to a website giving the basics on this terrible affliction:

http://www.ocpdguide.info/

And this link is to the Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group, the largest English-language group of it's kind on the Web:

http://ocpd.freeforums.org/

In March 2012, I was also diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, which is a form of Autism. Not 100% of the symptoms though. The diagnosis explained why I acted so strangely when growing up back in the 70's and early 80's.

Throw in the clinical depression and the alcoholism gene inherited from my Dad and his side of the family and you got the mental problems I want to be free of. From working with my psychologist, I now believe my Dad was - unconsciously - self-medicating when having to deal with his OCPD and his being misraised when HE was growing up. His Mom was the more domineering and critical and probably had the Disorder herself.

BTW, I don't drink myself, but the alcoholism gene does make fighting the need to eat sweets harder.

I inherited the Type 2 Diabetes from my late Mom's side of the family nearly 5 years ago. She never had it, but three of her sisters died from complications due to it. I also now suffer diabetic neuropathy in my feet and sometimes the legs. I rarely sleep more than three or four hours a night now. Usually I get one or two hours at a stretch, when the normal body needs seven to eight hours of sleep.

And since late July, when I had a CT scan, ultrasound and MRI scan done on me, I was told I have arthritis in my lower back. And it only adds to my pain and anger.

And I only turned 50 in early June of this year.

I moved out of my parents' home when I was 39 and with the help of my sister and brother-in-law. My spirit was that broken that I didn't move out earlier. My guess is that's why I never married or had a steady girlfriend.

Vox, I hope this will help you out with the medical questions you've asked me. If you need further info, please let me know. And again, thank you for putting up with and praying for me, a blasphemous slug. May Jesus richly reward you and your loved ones and all on FE who put with me.
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(10-27-2013, 02:11 PM)christulsa123 Wrote: YOU MIGHT BE A TOXIC TRAD IF:

You insist on Chestertonian styles of dress and behavior for men.

Well, obviously... if you all don't dress like me and wear sweatpants everyday you're all going to hell
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(10-27-2013, 11:16 PM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 02:11 PM)christulsa123 Wrote: YOU MIGHT BE A TOXIC TRAD IF:

You insist on Chestertonian styles of dress and behavior for men.

Well, obviously... if you all don't dress like me and wear sweatpants everyday you're all going to hell

Do you smoke a pipe?
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