NCRegister attacking Trads
#11
(01-12-2014, 12:57 PM)Tenmaru Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 12:25 PM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 11:45 AM)Tenmaru Wrote: What's wrong with that criticism of that particular kind of traddie?

That particularly described kind of traddie may indeed be a white-washed sepulcher.

Overwhelmingly, your (or Longenecker's) "particularly described kind of traddie" is rare if not non-existent. 

As a Traditional Catholic, I wish this were true. But maybe Trad-dom just has a hard time doing self-examination.

I cannot find any support for your position in real life.  The call to holiness is universal.  Trads get that more than any NO-lover I know, most of whom believe it's "not really necessary" to "be too religious."  Jesus, OTOH, was explicit about Being Perfect.

Traditionalism focuses on the 2000 year old tradition of Roman Catholicism, which was not abrogated in 1963.  I've never met a traditionalist who makes a personal claim of superior holiness as an individual, versus any other person, Catholic or not.  Rather, we believe that certain ways of worship and spirituality (including exhaustive self-examination, which was available long before V2, and which has been minimized by many since V2) incline more toward the "Perfection" Jesus asked of us than the casual attitude toward personal holiness and toward community worship which dominates the modern Catholic Church.
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#12
(01-12-2014, 01:06 PM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 12:57 PM)Tenmaru Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 12:25 PM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 11:45 AM)Tenmaru Wrote: What's wrong with that criticism of that particular kind of traddie?

That particularly described kind of traddie may indeed be a white-washed sepulcher.

Overwhelmingly, your (or Longenecker's) "particularly described kind of traddie" is rare if not non-existent. 

As a Traditional Catholic, I wish this were true. But maybe Trad-dom just has a hard time doing self-examination.

I cannot find any support for your position in real life.  The call to holiness is universal.  Trads get that more than any NO-lover I know, most of whom believe it's "not really necessary" to "be too religious."  Jesus, OTOH, was explicit about Being Perfect.

Traditionalism focuses on the 2000 year old tradition of Roman Catholicism, which was not abrogated in 1963.  I've never met a traditionalist who makes a personal claim of superior holiness as an individual, versus any other person, Catholic or not. 

Do we really need to set up these walls like, "no one has made a personal claim of superior holiness as an individual?" I mean, we really must look around, Miriam. Even the attitude in many posts within the FE board show a superior attitude as a group. And we know that the parts make up the whole.

Renewal will only happen when we are honest. It's fine to point out the flaws of the NO church, but the attitude we as a group convey pretty much betrays some implicit claim of superior holiness. Surely you must notice at least an inkling of this?
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#13
(01-12-2014, 01:37 PM)Tenmaru Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 01:06 PM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 12:57 PM)Tenmaru Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 12:25 PM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 11:45 AM)Tenmaru Wrote: What's wrong with that criticism of that particular kind of traddie?

That particularly described kind of traddie may indeed be a white-washed sepulcher.

Overwhelmingly, your (or Longenecker's) "particularly described kind of traddie" is rare if not non-existent. 

As a Traditional Catholic, I wish this were true. But maybe Trad-dom just has a hard time doing self-examination.

I cannot find any support for your position in real life.  The call to holiness is universal.  Trads get that more than any NO-lover I know, most of whom believe it's "not really necessary" to "be too religious."  Jesus, OTOH, was explicit about Being Perfect.

Traditionalism focuses on the 2000 year old tradition of Roman Catholicism, which was not abrogated in 1963.  I've never met a traditionalist who makes a personal claim of superior holiness as an individual, versus any other person, Catholic or not. 

Do we really need to set up these walls like, "no one has made a personal claim of superior holiness as an individual?" I mean, we really must look around, Miriam. Even the attitude in many posts within the FE board show a superior attitude as a group. And we know that the parts make up the whole.

Renewal will only happen when we are honest. It's fine to point out the flaws of the NO church, but the attitude we as a group convey pretty much betrays some implicit claim of superior holiness. Surely you must notice at least an inkling of this?

I deny that traditionalists have a superior attitude, regarding personal holiness, versus any other Catholic -- traditionalist, modernist, whatever.  Show me the posts in which traditionalists claim  --- not that traditionalism is a more reliable path toward holiness (because it is; spirituality is also a 2,000 year old tradition), but that any specific traditionalist, by virtue of such self-identification, is "more holy" than any other person.  I have never seen that.  What I have seen, and what I support, is the accurate observation that a doctrinal position is either authentically Catholic (by category) or it is not.  That has nothing to do with personal holiness, self-examination, etc.  Baptism is a rite of passage and a sacrament.  It does not guarantee fidelity to genuine Roman Catholicism.  it makes it possible, but all that holiness is, is personal work.
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#14


If you live on Long Island and are looking for traditional Masses there are three parishes on Long Island that celebrate the TLM: St Matthew's in Dix Hills, St Ladislaus in Hempstead and St Isidore in Riverhead. I would also recommend visiting the Ukrainian Catholic Church, if you have one close to you. I go to a Ukrainian Catholic parish in Lindenhurst called Holy Family, when I can't make it to the TLM at St Matthew's.

(01-12-2014, 12:33 PM)seanipie Wrote: He certainly nailed "trendies" though. Here on Long Island and in NYC this is exactly what you see in most of our churches. My problem would be the idea that there are just as many traditional types than trendy ones, because I have yet to see a church, no matter how traditional, actually present the TLM and even the most conservative parish here is filled to the brim with "trendies".

The only "trads" I know in person are my grandparents and even they haven't been to a TLM in a long time because they can't find one. The main reason I miss mass so often is because I yearn for tradition. Fortunately my parish is the most traditional around town (by town I mean all the villages, hamlets, etc., not just my village), but it still has many modernist issues. We even have a Ukrainian Catholic Church I'd really like to go to at least once.
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#15
(01-12-2014, 12:53 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: Fr. Longenecker has always been very Anti-Trad. He even uses articles from the Southern Poverty Law Center to prove that Trads are Anti-Semitic.

I don't know, I have the impression that some of the more orthodox NO Priests are too afraid of what they would find if they scratch too much beneath the surface of Vatican II, so they constantly have to bash Trads in order to reassure themselves that they are on the right track and everything is fine and dandy in the Church.
There is a German NO priest who is very knowledgeable and whenever he gives a talk he ends up sounding like a Trad because he knows Church History and the Church Fathers so well. He then sounds truly horrified at what they did to the Church after V2 and then all of a sudden it's like he thinks "oh no I sound like Trad" and he starts bashing the SSPX and sometimes the FSSP, just to reassure himself that he's not a Trad. It happens every time. :LOL:

For what it's worth, I liked your reply, austenbosten.

Thank you, I might post my comment, but I guess I don't want to come across as a typical angry Trad  :)
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#16
(01-12-2014, 03:02 PM)demoslider Wrote: If you live on Long Island and are looking for traditional Masses there are three parishes on Long Island that celebrate the TLM: St Matthew's in Dix Hills, St Ladislaus in Hempstead and St Isidore in Riverhead. I would also recommend visiting the Ukrainian Catholic Church, if you have one close to you. I go to a Ukrainian Catholic parish in Lindenhurst called Holy Family, when I can't make it to the TLM at St Matthew's.

(01-12-2014, 12:33 PM)seanipie Wrote: He certainly nailed "trendies" though. Here on Long Island and in NYC this is exactly what you see in most of our churches. My problem would be the idea that there are just as many traditional types than trendy ones, because I have yet to see a church, no matter how traditional, actually present the TLM and even the most conservative parish here is filled to the brim with "trendies".

The only "trads" I know in person are my grandparents and even they haven't been to a TLM in a long time because they can't find one. The main reason I miss mass so often is because I yearn for tradition. Fortunately my parish is the most traditional around town (by town I mean all the villages, hamlets, etc., not just my village), but it still has many modernist issues. We even have a Ukrainian Catholic Church I'd really like to go to at least once.

Yea I'm from Lindenhurst lol. I may go to Dix Hills one day, though it's not always so simple for me to leave town.
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#17
In fact that Ukrainian church is right across the street from my buddy's house. I remember when it was a synagogue.
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#18
That's cool. I wish I lived closer to Holy Family. I'm a half hour away and with this weather it isn't always feasible to drive there.

(01-12-2014, 03:33 PM)seanipie Wrote: In fact that Ukrainian church is right across the street from my buddy's house. I remember when it was a synagogue.
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#19
I find the critisisms of both the trendies and the traddies to be sound. They are the two ends of the spectrum, and both have merit. But I do agree I think that he's referring more to toxic-trads, just like the trendies are more the extremes on that end too.

What I find hardest with this Pope is that while he clearly feels we should be in the middle ground, he provides no "ground" from which to base this on.

Don't want me to "obsess" about abortion? Fine, I can do that. But what does that mean? I shouldn't be a trendie or a traddie? Then that precisely does that mean?

One of the first rules of being a parent is you sometimes need to tell the child what he does need to do vs. what they need to stop doing.

"Pope Frank" tends to be a little light on the details, especially when he's asking us to rethink our disposition. I get a pretty good idea of what he DOESN'T want, but never about what we should be.
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#20
(01-12-2014, 06:08 PM)PrairieMom Wrote: What I find hardest with this Pope is that while he clearly feels we should be in the middle ground, he provides no "ground" from which to base this on.

The middle ground -- which infinitely transcends either of these impostures of Catholic life -- is the Gospel and the Person of Jesus Christ.

Pope Francis has made it abundantly clear that this is his focus.
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