"Scarlet Bowl" unveiled, 3 Cardinals over 80 and 16 Cardinal electors
#11
(01-12-2014, 07:28 PM)Skarga Wrote: The Church has shifted hard left. The John Paul II/Benedict XVI era is officially over.

Well, "hard left" would seem a tad strong - but your point is taken, Skarga.

JPII/BXVI do form one era - although many Trads do not see this - and this papacy shows numerous indications that it will reverse the aspirations of both Popes ...
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#12
Skarga, the Italian influence on the papacy died in 1978.
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#13
Very much so.  The choice of a Metropolitan is quite important.  In Florida, all of our bishops answer to Archbishop Wenski of Miami.

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#14
I agree that some crosses and croziers are nicer than others but just because one is silvery looking doesn't mean it is silver.  It could be white gold or platinum.

I'd also be more interested in hearing how they conduct themselves, what they have done as priests/bishops and what they believe.
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#15
Archbishop Leonard was proably passed over because the former Cardinal Daneels 80 is still living , Belgium doesnt get 2 Cardinals. The surprise was Archbishop Capovilla 98 (John 23rd's secretary) He was the one that reignited the controversy over the 3rd Secret of Fatima after Cardinal Bertone thought he had officially ended all speculation in A.D. 2000 by releasing the 3rd secret. Capovilla gave journalist Antonio Socci the news that there were 2 parts to the 3 rd secret, one in the Vatican Archives, the other part in the papal safe. So i think its interesting that he was chosen because he helped undermine the pronouncement. Fatima has many secrets we dont know about.
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#16
(01-12-2014, 07:28 PM)Skarga Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 04:15 PM)IXOYE Wrote: Could someone explain what this means for the church ?

The Church has shifted hard left. The John Paul II/Benedict XVI era is officially over.

I'm absolutely shocked that Venice and Turin got snubbed. This is a big message being sent out by Francis. The Italian domination of the papacy is over, their last chance to save their power was in Scola and they couldn't unite to elect him. More than half of the cardinals are outside of Europe, Rome is going to start to look like the United Nations.

The most obvious progressive for most people is soon to be Card. Mueller, who like Francis is sympathetic to a "soft" version of Liberation theology. You can tell who's a progressive bishop/cardinal by the pectoral cross they wear, especially if the picture was taken in the pre-Francis days. Conservatives wear gold, progressives usually but not always wear silver or some cheaper metal that is silver in colour such as iron. Appearances can be deceiving, some liberals still wear gold crosses so the gold = conservative isn't always true.

Examples:

Gérald Cyprien Lacroix. He wears a silver cross. It's a Franciscan cross, a cross that has been adopted by progressives after the II Vatican Council to symbolize the poor church, ecology, and ecumenism. He replaced the Ratzingerian Ouellet as the primate of Canada, a very progressive dominated country.
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Jean-Pierre Kutwa. Wearing a silver looking cross.
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Orani João Tempesta. Wearing a silver or iron cross.
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Ricardo Ezzati Andrello. Simple wooden crosier. He also wears a silver or iron Franciscan cross but the picture is too big.
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Orlando B. Quevedo. Most pictures of him are in lay clothes. In this picture he's got an iron or silver chain.
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Chibly Langlois. Iron or silver cross.
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I can keep going on and on but I'll leave it here. Some of the guys that were elevated, particularly some of the Italians, where done for administrative reasons.

Here's some other examples of progressives wearing silver/iron to prove my point.

Roger Mahony. It's... blue?
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His successor in LA?
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Pope Francis. Simple crosier. Simple cross.
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EDIT:


I believe Venice got snubbed because the patriarch is very conservative.

Well the Catholic Church is a "Universal" Church. It isn't an Italian only Church. And since most of Western Europe is now dominated by Atheists thanks to the post Vatican II wolves. Well it only seems right to pick from where there is still a notable Christian population. I think the next Pope should come from the Byzantine or Coptic East.  I forgot the Coptics have a Pope already :P
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#17
(01-12-2014, 10:33 PM)salus Wrote: Archbishop Leonard was proably passed over because the former Cardinal Daneels 80 is still living , Belgium doesnt get 2 Cardinals. The surprise was Archbishop Capovilla 98 (John 23rd's secretary) He was the one that reignited the controversy over the 3rd Secret of Fatima after Cardinal Bertone thought he had officially ended all speculation in A.D. 2000 by releasing the 3rd secret. Capovilla gave journalist Antonio Socci the news that there were 2 parts to the 3 rd secret, one in the Vatican Archives, the other part in the papal safe. So i think its interesting that he was chosen because he helped undermine the pronouncement. Fatima has many secrets we dont know about.

Fascinating!  I didn't know about anything about 2 parts to the 3rd secret!

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#18
(01-12-2014, 07:15 PM)LoyalVIews Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 03:55 PM)eschera Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 03:20 PM)Oatmeal Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 01:58 PM)Zea mays Wrote: no ones broken them down by levels of orthodoxy yet?

I don't know about the others, but I bet you're going to hear a lot about Archbishop Nichols.

I read an interview where he said as a young man he just wanted to drive a lorry (truck), "I'd go to watch Liverpool and stand on the Kop at Anfield, and say to God: 'Why don't you just leave me alone? Why can't I just be one of a crowd?"

In his defence, that was when he was asked a question about how he became a priest, and believe it or not, that's a common thing for a priestly "candidate". Resistance is a sign that one is meant for the vocation. He's the the MOST ideal bishop, but, I'd like to see the rest shown in orthodoxy. How orthodox each one is, the things they've done during their time as bishop, etc...

I actually like Cardinal-designate Nichols a great deal!  He has to provide real leadership for the UK, the Cardinal from Scotland has cost them a measure of grief.

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#19
im not really sure if silver jewelry is a good argument for a liberal bishop, seems to be grasping at straws.

i dont wear gold, but im definitely not a liberal, i just think yellow gold jewelry is ugly.
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#20
(01-13-2014, 10:34 AM)Zea mays Wrote: im not really sure if silver jewelry is a good argument for a liberal bishop, seems to be grasping at straws.

i dont wear gold, but im definitely not a liberal, i just think yellow gold jewelry is ugly.

Go with silver, gold sends the wrong message!
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