Relatives trying to indoctrinate your kids.
#1
I am so upset, I just want to throw things!  :angrywom: :realmad: :doh: :jabs: :censored: :angrywom:

We recently got back from a family reunion down the Jersey Shore, where all the different branches of my family come together for a family reunion.  I have my 5 year old and my 4 month old and I spent a lot of time on the couch nursing my baby, while my 5 year old went with my mom to the beach, where I assume she spent time around various family members.  There are a lot of cousins of mine who are high school and college aged who came from far away and we don't see that often.  Everyone has left the Church... everyone has either become atheist or joined the "Episcopal" "Church."

So, today my 5 year old and I were having our lunch, and I forget what we were talking about, but at some point she said, "And sometimes, girls can marry girls." 

I lost my appetite.

I asked her "Who told you that."

"My cousins." 

I told her that her cousin was not correct, and that real marriage is something only 1 man, and 1 woman can do, because it takes a man and a woman to have a family.

Wait until she finds out that some kids, in fact MANY kids in her own town, have two mommies and two daddies.  She is only 5 right now and I've kept her blissfully ignorant that gay marriage exists.  Wait until she tells some random secular kid at the playground that only a man and a woman and we're accused of being "bigots!"  AAAAAGH!!

I asked her "Which cousin?"  "It was Alice, and Destinee."  Thank God, those are cousins we only see every few years.  Thank God my daughter told me so I can try to at least do a little "damage control." My daughter also said, "Destinee also said on the beach that she was going to turn into a seagull."  "Well, a girl marrying a girl makes about as much sense as a girl turning into a seagull",  I told her.  My daughter asked where people hear about these ideas.  I explained that there are some TV shows and movies that make wrong things seem right.  "Good thing I don't watch any of those shows," said my daughter.

I'm so PISSED OFF that my cousins speak about this in front of a FIVE year old.  I am pissed off at them, and pissed off at myself for going on that family reunion and trusting my relatives to take her to the beach without me around.  I know I can't keep my child sheltered forever, but I am TRYING to keep her innocent and pure as long as I can.  When I was 5, I didn't even know homosexuality existed.  Now my five year old knows that sometimes, girls marry girls, and there's nothing we can do about it.  My uncle's gay, two of my cousins are gay, another cousin identifies as "hetero-flexible" and 4 more are bisexual.  I had a phase like that too, when I was their age, so I understand where they're coming from.  In fact, one of my cousins knew I was "Bi" in her early teen years and I regret that she might have looked up to me, so maybe this is all my fault.  I'm just so angry!
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#2
Iubilate, I will pray for you and your child. I understand your pain.

As civilization moves farther away from the pillars on which it was founded, the edifice will fall, and quickly, and the return to the habits and loss of innocence typical of savage ages will indeed return. I am surprised by how quickly we have fallen so far.

Prayers for you and yours tonight, promise!
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#3
(08-04-2014, 11:32 PM)maldon Wrote: Iubilate, I will pray for you and your child. I understand your pain.

As civilization moves farther away from the pillars on which it was founded, the edifice will fall, and quickly, and the return to the habits and loss of innocence typical of savage ages will indeed return. I am surprised by how quickly we have fallen so far.

Prayers for you and yours tonight, promise!

Indeed, people with views like ours need to pull together. We are under siege in the world.
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#4
I understand 5 is a bit young, but if I can say something?  When she gets a little older, do explain before puberty that sometimes people are attracted to the same sex instead of the opposite sex.  Tell her what the church teaches, that it's not something to act on but that having those urges doesn't mean someone is a bad person.

I grew up not knowing anything about homosexuality.  It did absolutely nothing about the fact that I was attracted to girls other than make it more confusing.  In the long run I think it actually hurt me, in that with little concept of how to live chastely as a homosexual individual it was much easier to simply allow my desires free rein.
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#5
(08-05-2014, 01:32 AM)Sunset Wrote: I understand 5 is a bit young, but if I can say something?  When she gets a little older, do explain before puberty that sometimes people are attracted to the same sex instead of the opposite sex.  Tell her what the church teaches, that it's not something to act on but that having those urges doesn't mean someone is a bad person.

I grew up not knowing anything about homosexuality.  It did absolutely nothing about the fact that I was attracted to girls other than make it more confusing.  In the long run I think it actually hurt me, in that with little concept of how to live chastely as a homosexual individual it was much easier to simply allow my desires free rein.

THIS! Soooo many times, THIS!
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#6


I think I'd feel called to just lay it all out. A straight up:  "According to God, marriage is only between one man and one woman. That is how things are supposed to be.  Lots of people don't believe in God or they don't understand His teachings. So they think a man can marry a man, and a woman can marry a woman and that it's OK.  So many people who think that way worked to change even the laws, so now a man can legally "marry" (air quotes go there) a man, and a woman can legally "marry" a woman, but that is not what God wants of us.  We have to do as God asks.  Because the laws have been changed, you might see a kid who has 'two mommies' and no daddy, or two daddies and no mother. Isn't that sad? We have to pray for those poor children and their parents, don't we?"

I'd also be straight up with kids about homosexuality, treating it like a disorder and NOT a sin, not something to punish or hate people for, something that shouldn't be acted on because that would make it sinful, etc.

Kids are going to see all of this stuff as they go through life, and as soon as they see it -- or before -- they should be prepared for it. You're lucky that your kid happened to mention to you what she'd heard so you have the opportunity to explain things further!



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#7
(08-05-2014, 06:15 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: I think I'd feel called to just lay it all out. A straight up:  "According to God, marriage is only between one man and one woman. That is how things are supposed to be.  Lots of people don't believe in God or they don't understand His teachings. So they think a man can marry a man, and a woman can marry a woman and that it's OK.  So many people who think that way worked to change even the laws, so now a man can legally "marry" (air quotes go there) a man, and a woman can legally "marry" a woman, but that is not what God wants of us.  We have to do as God asks.  Because the laws have been changed, you might see a kid who has 'two mommies' and no daddy, or two daddies and no mother. Isn't that sad? We have to pray for those poor children and their parents, don't we?"

I'd also be straight up with kids about homosexuality, treating it like a disorder and NOT a sin, not something to punish or hate people for, something that shouldn't be acted on because that would make it sinful, etc.

Kids are going to see all of this stuff as they go through life, and as soon as they see it -- or before -- they should be prepared for it. You're lucky that your kid happened to mention to you what she'd heard so you have the opportunity to explain things further!

Pretty much this.  I mean, I don't think it's any worse than, say, teaching kids about divorce.  I learned pretty early that God wants a man and woman who are married to stay together, but sometimes people don't live the way they should, and that's why my friend goes away during the summer to see her daddy.
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#8
(08-05-2014, 07:33 PM)Sunset Wrote: Pretty much this.  I mean, I don't think it's any worse than, say, teaching kids about divorce.  I learned pretty early that God wants a man and woman who are married to stay together, but sometimes people don't live the way they should, and that's why my friend goes away during the summer to see her daddy.

Exactly.

Jubi, I'm so sorry you had to explain this to your child so young.  I also dread the day when I have to have this talk with my son.  My brother is gay, but he understands that if he is going to be around my son, he needs to keep things rated G.  He respects my decision as a parent because he knows me and understands that I am not actually raising my child to be a homophobic bigot.  But the world is trying to teach our kids that gay marriage is normal.  I mean, I'd take my son to a heterosexual wedding, I'd hold hands with my wife and kiss her in front of him, and I don't keep my heterosexuality hidden.  To someone who doesn't see anything wrong with homosexuality, it seems unfair to expect that they remain "in the closet."  We cannot control what other people do.  I'm not saying "Live and let live" but "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

You were good to emphasize that we love these people.  As a mother, you teach your child unconditional love.  Show your children that you love them no matter what, but you do not love what they do.  This is why I do not tell my son he is a "good boy."  I praise good  behavior and call out bad behavior but I make it clear that I always love him no matter what and I have the expectations I have BECAUSE of my love for him.
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#9
Jubilate,

I think you handled the situation with your five year old brilliantly.

Think of the success you had in that one conversation: You know which cousins to avoid, and that you will have to be careful even around family, She knows : that gay marriage happens but is very wrong and has a great analogy as to how stupid it is, people don't turn into other things, people get bad ideas from movies and TV.

I say that's great damage control, because from your description of her reaction you see: she's not thinking that gay marriage is right or good, but disordered; if she says gay marriage is wrong and people say she's wrong she'll fall back on the seagull analogy and that will take people off guard and she know that she can't take everything her cousins say as true, because they have wired ideas like turning into other animals. Imagine the cousins' reactions when she says, "remember when you said that some girls marry other girls, well, that's as stupid as you turning into a seagull."

I understand that you wouldn't have normally started talking about this at age 5, but you can't control all of the situations your children get into, and in many cases they learn by their parents response to the unexpected, not by some delicately-planned lecture.

Looking for advice from a priest when a teacher on teaching religion classes and getting to the 6th and 9th commandments, he explained very wisely that when children ask a question, they want an answer they understand. Never lie, for they can often tell, but give a simple answer. If they are satisfied, stop. They thereby tell you they know enough for their present age and state. If they continue to ask, respond to the "whys" with a very few added points of detail. Again when satisfied, stop. Eventually they will implicitly tell you they need to know more, and here if you are their parent you have the perfect time to educate them.

That is to say, kids are their own meter of how much you need to tell them to preserve their innocence. If they stop asking, they have enough information. If they keep asking, they need more.

It is important to remember that innocence is not about not knowing evil, but knowing the good appropriate to our state, so we can see the evil as evil and avoid it. Hence why it protect innocence to explain at the appropriate time the "birds and the bees".
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