Re: Masons, Knights of Columbus and Vatican II
#1
Okay, for too many years I have heard the mantra of "In the spirit of Vatican II...", which is often followed by some downright radical clap trap. Then when researched, is found that the subject NEVER came up during the Council. As an example, I know that (my memory may not serve very well) Pius X wrote an encyclical condemning Masonry and making membership an automatic excommunication for a Catholic, Lay or Cleric. Then I hear one of those "In the spirit of Vatican II..." things about how the provision against belonging to the Masons, for the laity at least, isn't in force and only Clerics are not allowed to join.

Enter now the good ol' K of C: Not only have I noted a number of Masonic symbols on cars in the parish parking lot on Sunday, but many are cars belonging to our K of C council members. What's up with that?! Aren't they diametrically opposed to each other, as in sworn enemies?

Have the Knights been infiltrated? These 'dual' members do seem to bring disrepute among their 'Knighted' friends. If its true..will there be a change?

Will the Knights clean up their act?Does anyone see this trend too?
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#2
The Second Vatican Council brought about the permission for Catholics to collaborate with (not join) charitable endevors of non-catholic groups where this had previously been forbidden. So for example the Knights of Columbus could collaborate on a non-Catholic charity like s Scottish rite hospital. Even though the excommunication for those members of the masonic lodges is not in the 1983 code of Canon Law, the Vatican has consistently reiterated that it is forbidden for Catholics to join these associations. 
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#3
The Knights of Columbus is the world's largest Catholic fraternal service organization. Founded by the Venerable Father Michael J. McGivney in New Haven, Connecticut, in 1882, it was named in honor of the mariner Christopher Columbus. Originally serving as a mutual benefit society to low-income immigrant Catholics, it developed into a fraternal benefit society dedicated to providing charitable services, promoting Catholic education and actively defending Catholicism in various nations.[1][2]

There are more than 1.85 million members in nearly 15,000 councils, with nearly 200 councils on college campuses. Membership is limited to "practical"[3] Catholic men aged 18 or older. Membership consists of four different degrees, each exemplifying a different principle of the Order. The Order is a member of the International Alliance of Catholic Knights.

Councils have been chartered in the United States (including some territories), Canada, the Philippines, Mexico, Poland, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Panama, the Bahamas, the Virgin Islands, Cuba, Guatemala, Guam, Saipan, South Korea, and on US military bases around the world.[4] The Knights' official junior organization, the Columbian Squires, has over 5,000 circles and the Order's patriotic arm, the Fourth Degree, has more than 2,500 assemblies.[5]

For their support for the Church and local communities, as well as for their philanthropic efforts, Pope John Paul II referred to the Order as a "strong right arm of the Church."[6] In 2013, the Order gave over US$170.1 million directly to charity and performed over 70.5 million man-hours of voluntary service. [7] Over 413,000 pints of blood were donated in 2010.[8] The Order's insurance program has more than $90 billion of life insurance policies in force, backed up by $19.8 billion in assets,[9] and holds the highest insurance ratings given by A. M. Best and the Insurance Marketplace Standards Association.[10] Within the United States on the national and state level, the Order is active in the political arena lobbying for laws and positions that uphold the Catholic Church's positions on public policy and social issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus

With so many members it is very likely that there are some who are freemasons, just as it is very likely that there are some who are victim to the other various vices.
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#4
When asked in 1983 if Catholics could be Freemasons, Pope Emeritus Benedict wrote “… the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.” This sounds clear enough, and I'm too young to remember 1983.  Even so, I have heard hundreds and hundreds of sermons from Catholic pulpits, I have attended more theology/apologetics lectures and catechesis sessions than I can count.  I have NOT ONCE heard Freemasonry or the Church's position on it mentioned by anyone I know in person.  This is from everyone- priest, seminarian, religious, theologian, lay catechist- everyone.  No matter how orthodox or reverent or traditional or anything they may be, everyone treats it as a non-issue.  No one will be cleaning up their act until they are told they need to.
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#5
(09-24-2014, 02:31 AM)Credidi Propter Wrote: When asked in 1983 if Catholics could be Freemasons, Pope Emeritus Benedict wrote “… the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.” This sounds clear enough, and I'm too young to remember 1983.  Even so, I have heard hundreds and hundreds of sermons from Catholic pulpits, I have attended more theology/apologetics lectures and catechesis sessions than I can count.  I have NOT ONCE heard Freemasonry or the Church's position on it mentioned by anyone I know in person.  This is from everyone- priest, seminarian, religious, theologian, lay catechist- everyone.  No matter how orthodox or reverent or traditional or anything they may be, everyone treats it as a non-issue.  No one will be cleaning up their act until they are told they need to.
It's not an issue for me unless someone asks or we are talking about prohibited groups. they fall under the category of evil gangs.
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#6
(09-24-2014, 02:41 AM)Poche Wrote:
(09-24-2014, 02:31 AM)Credidi Propter Wrote: When asked in 1983 if Catholics could be Freemasons, Pope Emeritus Benedict wrote “… the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.” This sounds clear enough, and I'm too young to remember 1983.  Even so, I have heard hundreds and hundreds of sermons from Catholic pulpits, I have attended more theology/apologetics lectures and catechesis sessions than I can count.  I have NOT ONCE heard Freemasonry or the Church's position on it mentioned by anyone I know in person.  This is from everyone- priest, seminarian, religious, theologian, lay catechist- everyone.  No matter how orthodox or reverent or traditional or anything they may be, everyone treats it as a non-issue.  No one will be cleaning up their act until they are told they need to.
It's not an issue for me unless someone asks or we are talking about prohibited groups. they fall under the category of evil gangs.

Many people join these groups without even considering what the Church says about it.  It isn't a matter of morality to them.  To them, it's just a place for networking and brotherhood, and there's nothing wrong with either of those things.  It is also teaches religious indifferentism- that it doesn't really matter what you believe as long as you believe in God.  It's everywhere in the culture (even no belief in God is OK there), and many are fed the heresy of religious indifferentism at church as well, so they don't even think about it.  Well, they need to think about it, because Our Lord said " I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me," and it is essential that those God has called to preach and to teach the faithful make sure they know it.
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#7
I have problems with the Knights of Columbus.  Many years ago our pastor was talking to me about problems with the Knights that concerned him so much that he told them he was resigning his membership in them.  He was not a man to exaggerate or fly off the handle on things.  This article goes into detail on some of the problems with them.  How sad that a group like the Knights will tolerate this nonsense.

http://lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2...alous.html
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#8
My husband was told when he joined the Knights about 7 or 8 years ago now that it was strictly forbidden and that if they belonged to the Knights and the Masons, they would be kicked out and referred to the bishop.

Now, there are Knights that belong to "other" groups, such as Rotary, which my understanding has ties to the Masons, but are not outright "Mason". That apparently seems to be okay.
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#9
i think as far as rotary it would be the same as if you worked at a food bank and there was a mason there, it doesnt mean your food bank has masonic ties.

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#10
(09-24-2014, 11:41 AM)Zea mays Wrote: i think as far as rotary it would be the same as if you worked at a food bank and there was a mason there, it doesnt mean your food bank has masonic ties.

I think it's more than that. My understanding is that many of those types of service clubs - Rotary, Oddfellows, Moose, Kiwanis, etc - all have some sort of ties to Masons, but in a non-obvious way. It's like a training ground to unsuspecting people. But maybe I misunderstood.
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