Counter-reformation 2.0

[Justin Alphonsus]

Everything that follows is just my opinion and I would enjoy some discussion on this!

When the Church finally gets itself in order ( I am optimistic), say an orthodox and traditional pope takes the throne, and begins undoing the mayhem of his predecessors, how will he go about restoring all that was lost in the last 50 years?  This is for the Roman Church.

In terms of the liturgy, the doctrine, the infrastructure, the clergy, the religious orders, and the family and society at large?

Liturgy

Slowly introducing the Tridentine mass, gradually over time, so as not to shock the faithful.  Immediately, abuses will be punished, extraordinary ministers, communion in the hand standing, altar girls, women lectors etc, etc,.  Slowly changed will be made, within a year all masses should be ad orientem and the canon and propers should be in Latin.  All public uses of the Divine Office should be in Latin.  Gregorian Chant should be mandatory learning.  This might be made easier by using the Little Office, the faithful might be more willing to integrate that since it is simpler and consistent save minor changes.

Doctrine

All bishops, priests, deacons, catechists and school teachers will be mandated to take the oath against modernism.  The creation of an office of the Vatican charged with interrogating suspected heretics.  Any Bishop, priest, deacon, or catechist accused of heresy will have to be tried by an inquisition.  If he is recalcitrant, he is excommunicated, and the faithful are warned to avoid him. 

Infrastructure

No more ugly buildings.  New architecture will have to be modelled after churches of the past, Gothic, Romanesque what have you.  All the travesties of modernity  should be phased out in 10 to 15 years.

http://www.fisheaters.com/forums/index.p...=3470980.0

Clergy & Religious

All clergy will be instructed using St. Thomas as there basis.  All seminaries should place a strong emphasis on Marian devotion and Mariology. 
Homosexuals should be discouraged from the priesthood.  Any priest who is found to be actively engaging in homosexual or heterosexual acts is to be given a severe reprimand, and made to do public penance.  St. Peter Damian would be a good resource on this department.
No more married deacons will be ordained, and the traditional order of the reception of the sacrament of Holy Orders will be reinstated.
More monasteries should be founded following traditional rules. 

Family

Family life has to be encourage.  Absolutely necessary. Any and all things that pose a threat to the family need to be condemned and combated with the fiercest zeal.  Men need to be called to manhood, act like men, be men.  All this effeminacy needs to be purged from society, ASAP. Young boys are to be given truly masculine role models, no more Jesus loves everybody where they are nonsense.  Purity in boys is to be stressed very strongly.  Homeschooling is to be greatly encouraged and aided by the Church, and the government wherever possible.  Parents are to made aware of the great responsibility of children and raising them properly.

General Society

The Church will issue the call to conversion to our perverse and wicked generation.  All "Catholic" politicians who support any of the myriad of societal evils (abortion, euthanasia, gay-"marriage", transgender-ism, sexual education, feminism, comunnism, etc.)  Will be issued a call to conversion and informed of the gravity of the sins.  If they refuse to heed that call, they will be publicly excommunicated from the Church.  Catholics who live in democracies will be told of the grave importance to vote for someone who is in line with Church doctrine and teaching.  The Social Reign of the Christ the King should be preached far and wide, and when it becomes viable, nations should become Catholic confessional states, heresy and immorality (adultery, sodomy, fornication) should be declared punishable crimes.  A strong stigma should be set against these sins.

[Fuerza]

Hi,

I largely agree with what you have posted here. With regard to society, family, doctrine and infrastructure I'm completely on board. I also agree with using Aquinas (combined with the Roman Catechism or Catechism of St. Pius X) as a basis for the training of all seminarians. I would take it one step further and completely standardize the seminary curriculum, likely based on one of the ones currently in use in the FSSP/ICKSP/SSPX. The only difference between seminaries, at least for now, should be whether they teach only the TLM or both the TLM and a (substantially modified) OF, with of course allowances to substitute the traditional Ambrosian or Mozarabic rites where appropriate.

With regard to the liturgy, I would go a slightly different direction, although I generally agree with what you wrote. Rather than return everyone to the TLM, even gradually, I would begin a significant revision of the NO. The entire Mass would be offered ad orientem, with the exception of the Gospel, homily and any part of the liturgy where the rubrics specifically call for a versus populum orientation. The traditional offertory prayers would be reinstated and all others abrogated. The Roman Canon would be the sole Eucharistic prayer, though the abbreviated form would be permitted on ordinary weekdays. The Kyrie would be required in Greek and the remainder of the Ordinary in Latin. On Sundays and solemnities they would have to be chanted. The propers could be chanted or recited. Hymns could be sung in addition to, never instead of the propers, and strict rules would be put in place regarding what hymns could be used and under what circumstances they could be in the vernacular/Latin. There would also be strict rules regarding instruments, basically limiting them to the organ and a handful of violin-type instruments. Some exceptions could be made for weddings. The Canon could be in the vernacular, but the words of consecration would have to be Latin, both to prevent their corruption and signify their importance. Communion would be on the tongue and in the form of bread only. Distribution under both forms would be by intinction only, and at the discretion of the celebrant. Those needing communion by wine only for medical reasons would need to make prior arrangements with the pastor. I would also restore the Final Gospel, at least for certain Holy Days.

Additionally, I wouldn't get rid of altar girls right away. Instead I would set strict guidelines for how altar girls dressed (no make-up or nail polish, hair in a bun etc...) and require that all sign a statement promising fidelity to Catholic teaching on the all-male priesthood. They would also be required to spend time volunteering in a convent and listen to periodic lectures on monastic vocations. Eventually I imagine most would self-select out of the position.

I could probably come up with more, but that's a good start.

[In His Love]

No more ugly buildings.  New architecture will have to be modelled after churches of the past, Gothic, Romanesque what have you.  All the travesties of modernity  should be phased out in 10 to 15 years.

But Justin, what would we do without buildings like this?



In all seriousness, I would also add that we need to teach women how to truly be feminine. None of this "I can do everything a man can do just as well as he can, if not better." We're not football players for a reason, nor are men the ones who were given the privilege of carrying children inside of them. None of this feminist junk. We need to teach girls to enjoy being female while not denigrating manhood and the patriarchy. We need to teach them how to be good role models for their future children (provided that's their vocation) and how to be a good support system as the heart of the family someday, as per Casti Connubii (again, provided that's their vocation).

[Justin Alphonsus]

[quote='In His Love' pid='1335569' dateline='1488237973']


But Justin, what would we do without buildings like this?

[quote]

That would be a problem, but nothing a box of matches can't fix!!

[In His Love]

The one on the top right looks like a Jenga tower.



If the black one didn't have the cross on it, it would look exactly like a prison.

[Melkite]

In reading this thread, it is really clear to me how anti-free-will traditional Catholicism is, and it makes me wonder if I lost my faith as I moved towards libertarianism, or if I moved towards libertarianism because I lost my faith.

[In His Love]

In reading this thread, it is really clear to me how anti-free-will traditional Catholicism is, and it makes me wonder if I lost my faith as I moved towards libertarianism, or if I moved towards libertarianism because I lost my faith.

Why do you think it's anti-free will, Melkite?

[Dominicus]

Yep anti-free-will all around. Just like traffic lights and socks. I should have the right to publicly aerate my feet at my own discretion, to suggest otherwise would be positively medieval. Just the same to suggest that we should treat our God with respect or rather anything but loathing would be downright evil. As we all know, He is actually a Mesopotamian war god who just likes to mess with us for kicks.

[In His Love]

Yep anti-free-will all around. Just like traffic lights and socks. I should have the right to publicly aerate my feet at my own discretion, to suggest otherwise would be positively medieval. Just the same to suggest that we should treat our God with respect or rather anything but loathing would be downright evil. As we all know, He is actually a Mesopotamian war god who just likes to mess with us for kicks.

:thumb:

Well said, Dominicus! It isn't anti-free will to have order and proper conduct.

[GangGreen]

No more ugly buildings.  New architecture will have to be modelled after churches of the past, Gothic, Romanesque what have you.  All the travesties of modernity  should be phased out in 10 to 15 years.

But Justin, what would we do without buildings like this?

Same thing they did to all of the beautiful buildings that they destroyed in the 70s onward. Sadly there are also tons of churches that look like schools on the outside (plain brick buildings) and then when you go in the church looks like an auditorium. It's awful.