Cardinal Burke's comments on schism and apostasy.
#11
(04-06-2018, 04:14 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote:
(04-06-2018, 02:26 PM)havok579257 Wrote: Its like Peter said to Jesus, where would we go?  At the end of the day the Catholic church as it currently stands is the church that Jesus' founded.  To leave that and go to some off shoot is no different than protestantism.  Oh sure the SSPX does ascribe to the Catholic faith but they are essentially following their own beliefs on what Jesus wants.  They are not following the church that he founded.  They don't claim to be the real church with the real Pope that leads them.  So there claim is similar to Protestants.  

No matter what happens, what any Pope does, it does not matter because at the end of the day we have the promise from Jesus.  The gates of hell will not prevail.  He doesn't say eventually they will prevail.  Or that they might prevail.  He says they won't and you must trust in him that he will keep his word.  So if any Pope tried to change Dogma it wouldn't happen.  Jesus would stop it some way.  Who knows how.  Although you must believe he would stop it, if you trust him.  

The church has been through so much in its 2000 year history.  It can survive whatever is thrown at it by whomever.  To leave the church is to deny Jesus' church and his promise.

[Image: 4ab.jpg]

Why do you post on a traditionalist forum again?  Oh, right because you are paid to do so.  What other explanation is there for someone who literally despises everything about traditional Catholicism?

So I despise trad Catholicism because I say we should never leave the church and schism off.  Seriously?   To be a traditional Catholic I have to support leaving the church if things go bad.  Don't stay and fight, just leave.  Sorry but I trust Jesus when he said the gates of hell will never prevail.

As to leaving the church.  We already know where you stand and I don't agree with it.
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#12
(04-06-2018, 08:01 PM)havok579257 Wrote: To be a traditional Catholic I have to support leaving the church if things go bad.  

Uh, no.
Corpus Christi, salva me.

Check out my new blog: A Young Popish American
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#13
Oh don't get the impression I'm hating on those who attend the SSPX,i personally do not find their position convincing but if someone else does that's their business. We can all only grope along through this mass apostasy and confusion the best we know how,and for some a safe haven is the SSPX. I simply cannot.

 I admit that i no longer believe in the RC teaching on the papacy. I'm basically Orthodox with a love of the west and some mild hope that maybe ill be  that i was wrong to leave Rome. I'm very disheartened and i love much of the western patrimony which is why i stick around. I truly believe ultramontanism is an achilles heel,and that ultimately both the sspx and sspv are equally tilting at windmills because neither see tje elephant in the room...ultramontanism on steriods.Everything revolves around one man and his thoughts,opionions and tinkering.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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#14
(04-06-2018, 10:20 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Oh don't get the impression I'm hating on those who attend the SSPX,i personally do not find their position convincing but if someone else does that's their business. We can all only grope along through this mass apostasy and confusion the best we know how,and for some a safe haven is the SSPX. I simply cannot.

 I admit that i no longer believe in the RC teaching on the papacy. I'm basically Orthodox with a love of the west and some mild hope that maybe ill be  that i was wrong to leave Rome. I'm very disheartened and i love much of the western patrimony which is why i stick around. I truly believe ultramontanism is an achilles heel,and that ultimately both the sspx and sspv are equally tilting at windmills because neither see tje elephant in the room...ultramontanism on steriods.Everything revolves around one man and his thoughts,opionions and tinkering.

One of the flaws that I find in Eastern Orthodoxy is that I don't exactly find it catholic in the 4 Marks sense of the word. I think Orthodoxy lacks the ability to be culturally universal and open; to "make disciples of all nations." I hear some Eastern Orthodox criticize everything Roman simply because it is not Eastern, anf I have also heard Orthodox criticize the Catholic Church as intellectually dishonest simply because of the existence of Byzantine Rite "Uniates." 

I equally researched Catholicism and Orthodoxy in my conversion process as a Protestant, and obviously I came out Catholic as a result of my research and I don't intend to cease to be a Catholic in full communion with the Pope for the rest of my life. I don't find any flaw whatsoever in ultramontanism but that's just my 2 cents.
Corpus Christi, salva me.

Check out my new blog: A Young Popish American
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#15
As a convert, I had to deal with something that I considered was an absurdly insane amount of absolute power bestowed upon St. Peter and his successors by Jesus Christ. I realized I had to take it or leave it. I took it, because the words of our Lord are very clear on this matter, and he clearly chose a very imperfect man to lay this on. The RCC has this problem because it is part and parcel of the situation willed by Jesus Christ himself. 

The Pope has the keys. All of them, but he can only open and close those doors under very particular circumstances. Outside of those circumstances, he can be ignored, respectfully ignored.

The "opinion" expressed by eminent theologians concerning the deposition of popes remains a mere "opinion." Popes have been declared heretical, but only after they are dead. There is no unanimous agreement on how to depose a living reigning pope; this is all theoretical. There is no one in reality to depose him except God, who can do so whenever He pleases. It is up to God.

As for leaving the Church: the Church is Mystical Body of Jesus Christ. To leave the Church is to leave Jesus Christ. Outside of Jesus Christ is Hell. Not an option. Sometimes, we just have to suffer.

The SSPX and the SSPV are in entirely different situations. The SSPX is clearly in the Catholic Church. They have Rome's permission to celebrate ALL of the sacraments. They recognize Francis as the Pope and Vicar of Christ. None of this applies, to my knowledge, to SSPV, et al.
"The days have gone down in the West, behind the hills, into shadow." - Theoden, King.
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#16
SSPX is more in Communion with Rome-Eternal, than most of the German episcopates, who are in Communion with Rome-Temporal.

Cardinal Burke is wrong about SSPX and honestly I think he is cut of the same cloth that Ratzinger and Bergoligio are cut from.
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#17
(04-06-2018, 07:05 PM)LaudeturIesus Wrote:
(04-06-2018, 11:27 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Since the pope has no equal and no-one short of God Himself can depose him there is nothing for a Catholic to do but to live with the cognitive dissonance and obey him and the hierarchy. 

But he does though. A heretical pope can be and has been deposed before from his office as the Vicar of Christ if a council of bishops does the following thing:

Quote:...the Pope has no superior on earth, even in the case of heresy, but that the Church does possess a ministerial power when it comes to deposing a heretical Pope. This opinion avoids the error of Conciliarism by affirming that the Church has no authority over a Pope, nor does the Church herself depose the pope, but only performs the ministerial function required for the deposition. The ministerial function consists of those acts which are necessary to establish that the Pope is indeed a heretic, which is then followed by a public declaratory sentence of the crime. It is God himself, however, who causes the man to fall from the Pontificate, but not without the Church herself performing the ministerial functions necessary to establish the crime.

He needs to be ousted and sent to the monastery to live out his days in silence and prayer.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#18
(04-06-2018, 10:45 PM)LaudeturIesus Wrote: One of the flaws that I find in Eastern Orthodoxy is that I don't exactly find it catholic in the 4 Marks sense of the word. I think Orthodoxy lacks the ability to be culturally universal and open; to "make disciples of all nations."

I understand what you mean - there are churches that have a strong ethnic focus (eg. Serbian, Russian, Greek) even when they are in America and western Europe. Yet to a significant extent there are some EO Churches that recognize that this is a significant issue and aim to be "American" (the OCA) or to embrace a western culture liturgically (the Western Rite).

I can understand your point in how much Rome aims to be a universal church covering all nations. I don't know how much you or the moderators want me to talk about Orthodoxy since this is a Catholic forum.
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