Which Bible ?
#1
Hello I am new here - thank you for having me. Recently started to feel like I need to return to the faith after decades in the wilderness and at least two of decades a borderline atheist.

I have read some of the NIV but the language is plain and seems to miss much although im not sure what I am missing rather feel it.

So a question from someone trying to find his way back in which Catholic authorised bible would / do you use ? I have looked online but searches bring up many choices which just confuse me. Preferable a study type catholic bible but without would suffice also.

Apologies in advance if this is a dumb question or posted in the wrong section.

Thanks and hello from England.

Dino
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#2
The NIV is a Protestant translation.  I don't think they have a Catholic version of it, or even one of those Protestant versions that include the so-called "Apocrypha" which are books that are actually part of the Biblical canon.  Avoid it.  If you want something that is written in modern English but still beautiful, I'd recommend the Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition.  I think there are several study Bible versions of it, but I haven't used any of them and so I can't recommend any.  I do recommend that you get a copy of "A Practical Commentary on Holy Scripture" by Frederick Knecht. It'll give you a traditional Catholic resource to help you understand the Bible as you read it.
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#3
If you want a slavishly literal version of the Latin Vulgate (the edition that the Roman Catholic Church has declared authentic and to be used for Theology), then the Douay-Rheims version is probably best, with the Challoner revision updating the language to a more modern English. Downside with this is that there is a lot of the idiom which gets lost in translation.

There is the Confraternity edition which was part Douay-Rheims and part a new revision by the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine in the U.S. in the 1950s was also pretty good, as it tried to fix some of the awkward translations. It is hard to find as it was quickly replaced by the New American Bible which is not to be recommended at all.

If you want a poetic translation which reads like Lord of the Rings in a English epic style, then Msgr Knox's version is excellent. It's only downside is that Msgr Knox gets a bit too playful with some psalms (trying to imitate the Hebrew technique in some of starting each verse with the same letter), and re-translates some classic phrases oddly. He explains why he did this in his Englishing the Bible but IMHO he went a bit too far. St Paul's letters, though, are easy to understand in a Catholic sense, however. Probably the best version for this I have found for the average person. It's not a good work to use for theological studies, however.

The RSV-CE is okay, but I'm not the biggest fan of it.

The Jersusalem Bible is good as well, not the New Jersualem. I'd avoid the commentary, though, which is sometimes not orthodox.

Any Protestant translation would historically be forbidden by the Church, because it often would mis-translate certain things in order to teach non-Catholic doctrine. For instance, most Protestant versions include Luther's heretical additions, like one finds in Romans 3, where in order to justify his "Sola Fide" theology, he changed "we are saved by faith" to "we are saved by faith alone."
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#4
I think the New American Bible (NAB) is okay, provided you take a giant sharpie to all the atrociously heterodox footnotes.

I must confess, I still like the KJV. I don't think there has been a Catholic translation that captures Psalm 23.
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#5
(01-28-2020, 09:03 PM)austenbosten Wrote: I must confess, I still like the KJV.  I don't think there has been a Catholic translation that captures Psalm 23.

Despite my Douay-Rheims bias, you're definitely right about Psalm 23.

Douay-Rheims translation (Psalm 22 [23]):

Quote:[1] A psalm for David. The Lord ruleth me: and I shall want nothing.

[2] He hath set me in a place of pasture. He hath brought me up, on the water of refreshment:

[3] He hath converted my soul. He hath led me on the paths of justice, for his own name's sake.

[4] For though I should walk in the midst of the shadow of death, I will fear no evils, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they have comforted me.

[5] Thou hast prepared a table before me against them that afflict me. Thou hast anointed my head with oil; and my chalice which inebriateth me, how goodly is it!

[6] And thy mercy will follow me all the days of my life. And that I may dwell in the house of the Lord unto length of days.


KJV (Psalm 23):

Quote:[1]A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

[2]He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

[3]He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

[4]Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

[5]Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

[6]Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.


I find it much less awkward, and more poetic, in the KJV translation.
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#6
(01-28-2020, 09:21 PM)Augustinian Wrote:
(01-28-2020, 09:03 PM)austenbosten Wrote: I must confess, I still like the KJV.  I don't think there has been a Catholic translation that captures Psalm 23.

Despite my Douay-Rheims bias, you're definitely right about Psalm 23.

Douay-Rheims translation (Psalm 22 [23]):

Quote:[1] A psalm for David. The Lord ruleth me: and I shall want nothing.

[2] He hath set me in a place of pasture. He hath brought me up, on the water of refreshment:

[3] He hath converted my soul. He hath led me on the paths of justice, for his own name's sake.

[4] For though I should walk in the midst of the shadow of death, I will fear no evils, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they have comforted me.

[5] Thou hast prepared a table before me against them that afflict me. Thou hast anointed my head with oil; and my chalice which inebriateth me, how goodly is it!

[6] And thy mercy will follow me all the days of my life. And that I may dwell in the house of the Lord unto length of days.


KJV (Psalm 23):

Quote:[1]A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

[2]He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

[3]He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

[4]Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

[5]Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

[6]Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.


I find it much less awkward, and more poetic, in the KJV translation.

And I'll put Miles Coverdale's translation in the Anglican Book of Common Prayer up against both! Of corse, Coverdale's version was designed for chanting, which neither the KJV or D-R were.

Psalm 23. Dominus regit me.

[Image: t_small.gif]HE Lord is my shepherd : therefore can I lack nothing.
2. He shall feed me in a green pasture : and lead me forth beside the waters of comfort.
3. He shall convert my soul : and bring me forth in the paths of righteousness, for his Name's sake.
4. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil : for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff comfort me.
5. Thou shalt prepare a table before me against them that trouble me : thou hast anointed my head with oil, and my cup shall be full.
6. But thy loving-kindness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life : and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
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#7
I still prefer the KJV of Psalm 23. Probably because I sing the Vicar of Dilbey theme to it. I wonder if Howard Goodall ever attempted to re-write the tune to different translations.
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#8
Thanks to all for taking the time to respond. Seems I have some choices to make. Will be heading over to Amazon to do some searches. There is a Christian bookshop in my home town but it seems limited.
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#9
(01-28-2020, 03:27 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: If you want a slavishly literal version of the Latin Vulgate (the edition that the Roman Catholic Church has declared authentic and to be used for Theology), then the Douay-Rheims version is probably best, with the Challoner revision updating the language to a more modern English. Downside with this is that there is a lot of the idiom which gets lost in translation.

There is the Confraternity edition which was part Douay-Rheims and part a new revision by the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine in the U.S. in the 1950s was also pretty good, as it tried to fix some of the awkward translations. It is hard to find as it was quickly replaced by the New American Bible which is not to be recommended at all.

If you want a poetic translation which reads like Lord of the Rings in a English epic style, then Msgr Knox's version is excellent. It's only downside is that Msgr Knox gets a bit too playful with some psalms (trying to imitate the Hebrew technique in some of starting each verse with the same letter), and re-translates some classic phrases oddly.

The RSV-CE is okay, but I'm not the biggest fan of it.
Agreed all around, MM. I prefer the Knox for the NT, especially Gospels, Acts, Paul; as you acclaim, Msgr Knox managed to unravel the Greek Paul used in particular to gain some needed clarity. I think he was less successful in the Hebrew translations, but he sought as commissioned by the English episcopate to update the Vulgate, not start from scratch, although he consulted the earlier texts. There is a well-written survey from Ignatius Press that I just finished on him by David Rooney, "The Wine of Certitude" which I recommend. I want to read that "Englishing" essay, too.

I rarely consult my Jerusalem, but it's good to know from you that my "original" is better than the "NewJB." Ditto on your take on the RSV-CE.

The CCD version grates on me; I recall it as a child and I did not like it then; we had in Catholic h.s. the NAB, which felt diluted, but I admit it's a bit more readable to me. What we "really" read most was that "Good News for Modern Man" translation with those creepy stick figure cartoons, designed so the edition could be rendered in many tongues.

This site offers a side-by-side D-R/Latin Vulgate/Knox Bible layout.
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