“Is the SSPX in schism? YES. Find out why” -I've made a video, grateful for feedback
#1
EDIT: sorry for the delay in getting back to messages. I will try my best to respond to you all and am grateful for your patience and for the discussion. Pax Christi! All glory unto God.

Dear Brothers/Sisters in Christ, I’m a new member here so would first like to say hello to all! By way of brief intro, I am a Catholic layperson- lucky to be able to attend TLM but do recognise NO as an equal rite. Praying daily for Our Lord’s mercy through these times...

… I am posting here as I would be very grateful for your opinions. I have made a three part video on the SSPX, presenting the side of the argument that they are in schism. I realise this is a controversial subject and this forum contains a great diversity of opinion. It is a subject often proposed as convoluted but in my opinion, when you arrive at the heart of it, it is straightforward- tradition is not Tradition unless it’s foundations are Rome.

So far I have made 2 of 3 of the videos (at a summary level):

Part 1
     Intro
     History (inception - today)
Part 2
     Views of the Society:
          Vatican 2
          The New Mass
          Rome and the Vatican
          Lefebvre’s defence- The State of Necessity
Part 3 (in progress)
     closing comments

I’m braced for the “dislikes”! I would only invite you in turn, to please watch it critically and leave comments (either on the video or on this thread)

This video is the sum of my research and I have aimed to keep this clear and concise. Apologies in advance if any of the content causes offence to anyone- that is not my intention. On the contrary, I hope it is a useful tool for discussion- I do realise that we have been around this topic many times, but an enduring murkiness remains.

Online communities have been so valuable to me personally over the years, especially with regards to Traditional Catholicism- the media in this space has become very saturated with views difficult to discern. As such, I would very much welcome your honest feedback and discussion. God bless! Our Lady, pray for us.
  • Part 1 (c.12m) :
  • Part 2 (c.17m) :
  • Part 3: in progress
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#2
How fascinating! I realise there are many people who don't consider Francis to be Pope, but I hadn't realised you had been elected. The fact that you seem to know more than Francis and the Vatican on this matter indicates that least you THINK you're Pope!
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
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My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
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#3
Wink 
(05-25-2020, 04:48 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: How fascinating! I realise there are many people who don't consider Francis to be Pope, but I hadn't realised you had been elected. The fact that you seem to know more than Francis and the Vatican on this matter indicates that least you THINK you're Pope!

Dear Jovan thanks for your reply. Haha yes indeed! I do not think that I am the Pope ;) . I do however think that the Mercy of the Church during the past 50 years, towards the Society, has been immense. The door has been open for a while. This does not however indicate an erring in their view, which in my opinion is clear. Pope Francis' indults were exactly that- indults. I.e. a suspension of the Law, led by the Mercy of Holy Mother Church. God bless!
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#4
But it is a fact of theology and Canon law that that even the Pope cannot grant faculties to those outside the Church, i.e. schismatics. Ergo, Francis does not consider the SSPX schismatic, but you do, so you've put yourself above the Pope.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
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#5
And, just a thought. To join the forum and make your first post an attack on a respected and loved Institute of the Catholic Church is no way to win friends and influence people. Just sayin'.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
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#6
The question of the SSPX's Catholicity has been beaten into the dirt, stomped on, shot multiple times and left to rot in the open sun so many times on this forum that I suggest you go read the various threads from ten years ago. The SSPX was never in schism. By definition, Vatican II and the Novus Ordo are A SCHISM. For that reason, any Catholic who denies the Catholicity of Vatican II and its rites will be declared schismatic by this new heretical sect.

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#7
(05-25-2020, 05:03 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: But it is a fact of theology and Canon law that that even the Pope cannot grant faculties to those outside the Church, i.e. schismatics. Ergo, Francis does not consider the SSPX schismatic, but you do, so you've put yourself above the Pope.

Dear Jovan, thanks for the reply. The definition of schism, also per Canon Law (pasted below for ease of ref.) supersedes the indult Pope Francis granted.

In other words, whilst the Society continue to reject VII and not recognise the NO as of equal rite, the schism is implicit. "Communion with the members of the Church subject to him" cannot be attained until the Society address their professed positions on VII and the NO. The indult is driven by the Mercy of the Church, and recognises the Society as Brothers in Christ- this is never in dispute.

God bless!

Code of Canon Law is: quote, “the refusal- of submission to the Supreme Pontiff- or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him”
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#8
(05-25-2020, 05:05 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: And, just a thought. To join the forum and make your first post an attack on a respected and loved Institute of the Catholic Church is no way to win friends and influence people. Just sayin'.

Dear Jovan- I did say in my original post that I do not intend to offend anyone. And none of my posts have been offensive. This is a Traditional Catholic forum- of which I am one. My point is not to win friends or influence but to arrive at Truth with my fellow Catholics. You are the moderator however and I respect that.  Peace be with you!
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#9
(05-25-2020, 05:16 PM)humilityandpatience Wrote:
(05-25-2020, 05:03 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: But it is a fact of theology and Canon law that that even the Pope cannot grant faculties to those outside the Church, i.e. schismatics. Ergo, Francis does not consider the SSPX schismatic, but you do, so you've put yourself above the Pope.

Dear Jovan, thanks for the reply. The definition of schism, also per Canon Law (pasted below for ease of ref.) supersedes the indult Pope Francis granted.

In other words, whilst the Society continue to reject VII and not recognise the NO as of equal rite, the schism is implicit. "Communion with the members of the Church subject to him" cannot be attained until the Society address their professed positions on VII and the NO. The indult is driven by the Mercy of the Church, and recognises the Society as Brothers in Christ- this is never in dispute.

God bless!

Code of Canon Law is: quote, “the refusal- of submission to the Supreme Pontiff- or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him”

As the Supreme Legislator, Francis is not bound by Canon Law, so Canon Law cannot, under Canon Law, 'supersede() the indult Pope Francis granted'.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
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#10
More armchair theologizing, especially about canon law, is not the solution.

Fr. Gerald Murray successfully defended his 1995 JCL thesis at the Greg (and received highest marks) on why the SSPX has never been in schism nor those laity who associate with it. For the reader's digest: https://fsspx.org/en/concerning-fr-murra...99s-thesis

And if you want to hear the politically incorrect truth, JPII used Fr. Bisig's personal crisis of conscience over the consecrations as a power play against Abp. Lefebvre and Tradition.
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