Interesting article : What Is Behind Francis’ Rehabilitation of Judas?
Oliver is the pope of his own religion.  It's not Catholicism.
[-] The following 3 users Like Evangelium's post:
  • ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident, Filiolus, jovan66102
Reply
(04-11-2021, 04:25 PM)Oliver109 Wrote: Is God as rigid as us? The Church once widely taught that all the unbaptized could not make it to Heaven, the Church now teaches that anyone is able to get to Heaven if they lead a good life, sacraments like Confession are important as they give Catholics the reassurance that they have been forgiven but not receiving the sacraments is i am sure not a barrier to salvation.

I don't know where you're getting ideas like this, but they have nothing to do with Catholicism. The Church has NEVER said that 'anyone is able to get to Heaven if they lead a good life'. She has taught, in her infallible teaching that if one dies in a state of grace, one goes to heaven after any necessary purgation of the temporal guilt for one's ABSOLVED sins. If one dies in a state of mortal sin, one goes to hell, no matter how good a life they have led.

If '
not receiving the sacraments is ... not a barrier to salvation', Christ flat out LIED when he said, in the great Eucharistic discourse in John 6, verse 54, Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.'
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
[-] The following 3 users Like jovan66102's post:
  • Evangelium, Filiolus, Ioannes_L
Reply
(04-11-2021, 04:54 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-11-2021, 04:25 PM)Oliver109 Wrote: Is God as rigid as us? The Church once widely taught that all the unbaptized could not make it to Heaven, the Church now teaches that anyone is able to get to Heaven if they lead a good life, sacraments like Confession are important as they give Catholics the reassurance that they have been forgiven but not receiving the sacraments is i am sure not a barrier to salvation.

I don't know where you're getting ideas like this, but they have nothing to do with Catholicism. The Church has NEVER said that 'anyone is able to get to Heaven if they lead a good life'. She has taught, in her infallible teaching that if one dies in a state of grace, one goes to heaven after any necessary purgation of the temporal guilt for one's ABSOLVED sins. If one dies in a state of mortal sin, one goes to hell, no matter how good a life they have led.

If '
not receiving the sacraments is ... not a barrier to salvation', Christ flat out LIED when he said, in the great Eucharistic discourse in John 6, verse 54, Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.'
"She has taught, in her infallible teaching that if one dies in a state of grace, one goes to heaven after any necessary purgation of the temporal guilt for one's ABSOLVED sins. If one dies in a state of mortal sin, one goes to hell, no matter how good a life they have led." Why does the church place more importance on a short moment like death rather than on the whole of ones life? i mean someone is either good or wicked in life, why does the minute around death make such a difference to one's eternal outcome? and isn't it a bit unfair for one sinner to sin after confession and die and go to Hell while another sinner goes to confession and dies before they may sin again? it just seems blatantly unfair. 
Reply
(04-11-2021, 05:20 PM)Oliver109 Wrote: it just seems blatantly unfair. 

It only seems unfair viewed through the haze of habitual sin. Eventually, you'll learn to love the moral law.
Reply
You are advocating for the theory called "fundamental option."  It has been condemned by the Church.
Reply
(04-11-2021, 05:24 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-11-2021, 05:20 PM)Oliver109 Wrote: it just seems blatantly unfair. 

It only seems unfair viewed through the haze of habitual sin.  Eventually, you'll learn to love the moral law.
I just see it as unfair that God saves some sinners and not all, lets face it huge numbers of people have chosen Hell at least for a few moments in their life, how can some be saved and others not? where is the fairness in that?
Reply
(04-11-2021, 05:20 PM)Oliver109 Wrote: it just seems blatantly unfair. 

'Fairness' has nothing to do with it. God is not 'fair', He is just and merciful. He has given us the moral law and the ability, through the Sacraments and His grace, to live in accordance with it. He has appointed Purgatory to purge the temporal guilt of absolved mortal sins and of venial sins. He has laid down the invariable equation State of Grace + Death = Heaven, or, inversely, Mortal Sin + Death = Hell.

There is noting 'fair' or 'unfair' about it.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
[-] The following 1 user Likes jovan66102's post:
  • Ioannes_L
Reply
(04-11-2021, 05:48 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-11-2021, 05:20 PM)Oliver109 Wrote: it just seems blatantly unfair. 

'Fairness' has nothing to do with it. God is not 'fair', He is just and merciful. He has given us the moral law and the ability, through the Sacraments and His grace, to live in accordance with it. He has appointed Purgatory to purge the temporal guilt of absolved mortal sins and of venial sins. He has laid down the invariable equation State of Grace + Death = Heaven, or, inversely, Mortal Sin + Death = Hell.

There is noting 'fair' or 'unfair' about it.
So are you happy for God to save some sinners but not others? are you happy for God to refuse to give someone another chance to ask for forgiveness(by giving them a sudden death) while God will give another person another chance to ask for forgiveness because it is his will? I always thought that God was fair, you disappointed me by saying that God puts justice above fairness.
Reply
(04-11-2021, 06:01 PM)Oliver109 Wrote: you disappointed me by saying that God puts justice above fairness.

You disappoint God by making yourself the judge and final arbiter of who is admitted to Heaven.
[-] The following 1 user Likes ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident's post:
  • jovan66102
Reply
(04-11-2021, 06:08 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-11-2021, 06:01 PM)Oliver109 Wrote: you disappointed me by saying that God puts justice above fairness.

You disappoint God by making yourself the judge and final arbiter of who is admitted to Heaven.
I am only looking for answers, if God gave a reason like say person A did not try hard enough to seek salvation while person B did and God saved person B then i would have to accept that, the thing is God has never given a reason and so we are left wondering if we died suddenly in the next 5 mins whether we tried hard enough to make it to Heaven or if we will arrive there and hear God tell us that we did not make enough effort. You just don't know and neither do i?
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)