Can converts receive the Sacrament of Confession?
#11
(04-13-2021, 02:52 PM)Pandora Wrote: As an aside, I’d like to put out there that despite how we may personally feel about reverence, respect, etc., people confirmed in the Novus Ordo are really, truly confirmed.  Just as we cannot be re-baptized, we cannot be re-confirmed.  Maybe we would have preferred it be performed by Fr. Trad Tradderson in the traditional form instead of Fr. Jimmy No-Last-Name, but our preference does not make the sacrament.


I think this is going to start a firestorm, but I’ll go ahead and say it anyway: NO sacraments are efficacious, provided, as with any rite or use, they are done with the intent to perform the sacraments.

... and the proper matter and form is used.

That's an important caveat, that is not always going to be the case, as we found out with the whole "We baptize you" question a little while back. 

This is not the place to discuss the merits of any questions over Confirmation, but it is worth pointing out that there are several significant problems with the modern rite itself as regards the changed matter and form in the newer rite such as a form which is extremely vague, and the lack of the older imposition of hands. Are these enough to invalidate? I can't say, but it's enough to put a cloud over the whole issue. Add the question over the matter, which all traditional theologians held to be properly blessed olive oil (an that no other vegetable oil would be valid), is now any vegetable oil ...

Totally agree we should not question Sacraments where there is no questions. If valid in the new rite, indeed, you don't get to have a traditional do-over, but if there is an issue of validity, or a question, there is the conditional reception of the Sacrament to ensure validity.

The SSPX, officially, for instance, given these questions, routinely gives conditional Confirmation to those who were not confirmed using the older rite or where the older rite was used, but there is question over the matter. The conditional form is used.

Is there a
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#12
(04-13-2021, 03:48 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 03:45 PM)convert145 Wrote: Why would anyone seriously not believe this? If you're bringing this up in response to me deciding not to do RCIA it's not that I didn't think I could become Catholic that way, I just didn't want to sit through a bunch of heresy in the meantime. I'm by no means a know-it-all or a "more Catholic than the pope" trad or anything, I just deeply trust my SSPX priests understanding and desire to empart the Catholic Faith to my wife and I, where the woman who taught RCIA in the NO parish was much more suspect to me, inherently, as well as in the things taught in that class.

Many in the SSPX reject the validity of some Novus Ordo sacraments.  This is not the official position of the Society, but it doesn't stop people.  That may have been what the other poster was responding to.
Yeah, I'm sure that's probably true. I went to a NO mass today after confession because while I agree that NO can be damaging to the Faith and irreverent, I still feel like it is pleasing to our Lord to participate in liturgy. I made up my mind to not worry about my personal preference and just go to Mass and worship and pray. The table, the priest's back to the tabernacle, the lay people reading the gospel, and the way that me trying to pray during the liturgy made me feel like I was "getting distracted" or not participating or something, struck me. I believe NO is valid but an inferior liturgy and I pray that the Church will standardize the Tridentine Mass again soon.
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#13
To the OP's original point :

Recall what the Sacrament of Penance is. It is a tribunal for baptized Catholics in which their sorrow for sins is perfected by the Sacrament so that they are absolved. It is a substitute for Perfect Contrition, a moral guarantee of absolution, and required by the Church before we normally return to receiving the other Sacraments if we have fallen into mortal sin.

An Act of Perfect Contrition will forgive sins, even mortal sins, if it is truly a Perfect Act, which means it is a hatred of all of our sins because of the offense to God (and not some lesser motive), and it includes the intention to confess and receive absolution as soon as reasonably possible.

You therefore have your answer as to what to do as one preparing to enter the Catholic Church. If you decide to confess your sins, but cannot be absolved, use it as the means to recall your sins and to ask for help in making a Perfect Act of Contrition.

If you do this, these are forgiven, though, when you enter the Church, you will need to confess any mortal sins, even if Perfect Contrition has forgiven them.

Pray to have this contrition, and make the act frequently, and you have the best guarantee that you will be truly sorry.
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#14
(04-13-2021, 03:48 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Many in the SSPX reject the validity of some Novus Ordo sacraments.
They are not "in the SSPX"...
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#15
(04-13-2021, 04:04 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: An Act of Perfect Contrition will forgive sins, even mortal sins, if it is truly a Perfect Act, which means it is a hatred of all of our sins because of the offense to God (and not some lesser motive), and it includes the intention to confess and receive absolution as soon as reasonably possible.
An act of perfect contrition doesn't have to be a "perfect act". It is true that in an act of perfect contrition we must hate at least all our mortal sins because they offend God, but the presence of a less noble motive alongside this does not imply we don't have perfect contrition.
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#16
(04-13-2021, 04:18 PM)Marmot Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 03:48 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Many in the SSPX reject the validity of some Novus Ordo sacraments.
They are not "in the SSPX"...

Very true. The SSPX is an Institute of Priests. Laymen may attend Masses offered by the SSPX, but they are not 'n' or 'part of' the Society.
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#17
(04-13-2021, 04:23 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 04:18 PM)Marmot Wrote:
(04-13-2021, 03:48 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: Many in the SSPX reject the validity of some Novus Ordo sacraments.
They are not "in the SSPX"...

Very true. The SSPX is an Institute of Priests. Laymen may attend Masses offered by the SSPX, but they are not 'n' or 'part of' the Society.

There are priests in the Society who reject the validity of Novus Ordo sacraments.
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#18
Wink 
(04-13-2021, 04:33 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: There are priests in the Society who reject the validity of Novus Ordo sacraments.
Say who they are, and we'll see tomorrow whether they are "in the SSPX".
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#19
Feeling silly for asking this, and I may have totally missed something in this thread:

Do former Protestants (not lapsed Catholics) entering the church at a traditional parish (vs. NO) wait for their first confession until after being confirmed? Or do they confess without being given absolution?

Why I'm asking:
- I have yet to witness a baptized Protestant become Catholic at a traditional parish, just a former atheist receiving all his sacraments at once and a lot of babies.
- My husband is a catechist at a NO parish, and I believe that they instruct former Protestants entering the Church at the Easter Vigil to go confess prior to being confirmed, that they must remember all their mortal sins to the best of their ability, and that they CAN receive absolution before Confirmation. This usually occurs around the time of the scrutinies... which maybe has something to do with the ability to receive absolution? Was/is there a certain point in the journey to becoming Catholic that the Church would give them a Catholic funeral Mass and burial if they died or were, say, martyred before receiving the sacraments?
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#20
(04-13-2021, 05:20 PM)Little Fish Wrote: - My husband is a catechist at a NO parish, and I believe that they instruct former Protestants entering the Church at the Easter Vigil to go confess prior to being confirmed, that they must remember all their mortal sins to the best of their ability, and that they CAN receive absolution before Confirmation. This usually occurs around the time of the scrutinies... which maybe has something to do with the ability to receive absolution? Was/is there a certain point in the journey to becoming Catholic that the Church would give them a Catholic funeral Mass and burial if they died or were, say, martyred before receiving the sacraments?

It's possible for someone who is baptized but not confirmed to receive absolution. Otherwise, the vast majority of kids in Novus Ordo parishes would be making invalid confessions for about half a dozen years in between their first confession and their confirmation.

Why is it not allowed for catechumens? Probably to make sure that they're adequately prepared for that sacrament. It's just as serious as any of the others, and we don't want someone going in there without a good understanding of contrition, amendment, and how to do an examination.
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