On the Fetal Testing Angle to the Vax?
#1
My younger sis doesn't want my family to visit hers at their cabin this summer since we haven't been jabbed.  Fine.  She must have spoken with my brother who knows one of my objections is the abortion tainted testing process.  She argued that "on the Nebraska Medicine website, the Covid vaccines were not tested on fetuses.  They used fetal cell lines that no longer contain tissue from a fetus.  Finally, if someone has been vaccinated for chicken pox, rubella and hepatitis A, those vaccines were developed using fetal cell lines.  Does that make the concerns about getting vaccinated less concerning?  I hope so."

If I may beg your patience to help me unpack the above as part of a charitably fraternal response, isn't it true that in moral philosophy there are some instances whereby one may remotely cooperate with evil; however, isn't it also the case that the available Covid vaccines must continually test against the virus using new fetal cell lines?  As for her second argument that other childhood vaccinations we may have already accepted for our kids are just as tainted, couldn't one argue that less information was available at the time, or that we were coerced?  I feel that my children's pediatrician either was woefully ignorant or lied to us.  In this new vax, furthermore, we know we are the lab rats and have no long-term data to show the possible side effects.  I'm also planning to modify one of Patrick Madrid's rhetorical devices by switching the victim of abortion with tissue/testing on a slave or an inmate in a Holocaust concentration camp.

Nevertheless, if my poor sister is willing to buy into this (when we were okay with just masks & "social" distancing for the past year+), I feel pretty helpless in convincing her.  It's "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" time.  
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#2
Moderna vaccine was not developed, designed or produced using fetal cell lines. If people wish to use fetal lines after production then this really has nothing to do with development of vaccine. Take the Moderna vaccine if you receive objections. I have. 2 of them, 6 weeks apart. I have not died, gotten sick, developed heart arrythmias, nor even chills, headaches or muscle aches. I was hoping for serious reaction after second vaccine so I could take day off work, but nothing. Wife has combo Pfizer/Moderna shots. Same. Son Pfizers. Same.

Re possible fetal lines in other vaccines, the public health issues are justified. Bishops say so. The Vatican allows it.
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#3
(07-09-2021, 08:29 PM)Ambrosiano Wrote: If I may beg your patience to help me unpack the above as part of a charitably fraternal response, isn't it true that in moral philosophy there are some instances whereby one may remotely cooperate with evil; however, isn't it also the case that the available Covid vaccines must continually test against the virus using new fetal cell lines?  As for her second argument that other childhood vaccinations we may have already accepted for our kids are just as tainted, couldn't one argue that less information was available at the time, or that we were coerced?  I feel that my children's pediatrician either was woefully ignorant or lied to us.  In this new vax, furthermore, we know we are the lab rats and have no long-term data to show the possible side effects.  I'm also planning to modify one of Patrick Madrid's rhetorical devices by switching the victim of abortion with tissue/testing on a slave or an inmate in a Holocaust concentration camp.

Ignore the troll above.

There must be no alternative available--alternatives like HCQ, Ivermectin, Vitamin D, Zinc, eating right, exercising, maintaining a healthy weight, rolling the dice on a 99.7% survival rate, etc...

https://www.immunize.org/talking-about-v...cument.htm

Additionally, even if these alternatives didn't exist, your remote, passive, material cooperation would have to obtain some proportional benefit.  Given the 99.7% survival rate of the disease, you can't really say that your cooperation would obtain a proportional benefit.
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#4
Rolling the dice on a disease that kills 3 in 100 by exercising and eating fortified bran flakes mocks the Lord. Most recent study, 50% of covid infectees still experience symptoms 12 weeks later. This is not flu or a bad cold. Wife spend last year watching people die from Covid. Get your mrna vaccine. Do not be foolish. All of you here who refuse vaccine based on facebook feed and talk radio, i pray you do not get covid, but i fear some of you do. And as most of you seem to be over 70, you will be very sick in best case scenario,
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#5
(07-09-2021, 09:48 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote: 99.7%

(07-09-2021, 10:38 PM)Happy Boy Wrote: 3 in 100

[Image: 2tfsx4.jpg]
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#6
600,000 deaths from Covid in the US and you put up muppets to mock
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#7
(07-09-2021, 10:56 PM)Happy Boy Wrote: 600,000 deaths from Covid in the US and you put up muppets to mock

Yep.
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#8
May the Lord rebuke you
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#9
(07-09-2021, 11:05 PM)Happy Boy Wrote: May the Lord rebuke you

Calling down Divine vengeance insincerely, on someone whom you know not to be doing anything wrong, is against one of those commandment thingies.
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#10
(07-09-2021, 08:29 PM)Ambrosiano Wrote: My younger sis doesn't want my family to visit hers at their cabin this summer since we haven't been jabbed.  Fine.  She must have spoken with my brother who knows one of my objections is the abortion tainted testing process.  She argued that "on the Nebraska Medicine website, the Covid vaccines were not tested on fetuses.  They used fetal cell lines that no longer contain tissue from a fetus.  Finally, if someone has been vaccinated for chicken pox, rubella and hepatitis A, those vaccines were developed using fetal cell lines.  Does that make the concerns about getting vaccinated less concerning?  I hope so."

If I may beg your patience to help me unpack the above as part of a charitably fraternal response, isn't it true that in moral philosophy there are some instances whereby one may remotely cooperate with evil; however, isn't it also the case that the available Covid vaccines must continually test against the virus using new fetal cell lines?  As for her second argument that other childhood vaccinations we may have already accepted for our kids are just as tainted, couldn't one argue that less information was available at the time, or that we were coerced?  I feel that my children's pediatrician either was woefully ignorant or lied to us.  In this new vax, furthermore, we know we are the lab rats and have no long-term data to show the possible side effects.  I'm also planning to modify one of Patrick Madrid's rhetorical devices by switching the victim of abortion with tissue/testing on a slave or an inmate in a Holocaust concentration camp.

Nevertheless, if my poor sister is willing to buy into this (when we were okay with just masks & "social" distancing for the past year+), I feel pretty helpless in convincing her.  It's "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" time.  

So my suggestion is to take your post, and simply substitute your objections for hers. It simply goes both ways.

The Church has suggested that most of its members get the vaccine to help protect others from contracting this disease and to stop the spread, illness and death from Covid. If the Church's word isn't good enough for you, no sense in looking for other moral or philosophical arguments to support your decision.

Yes, your chance of survival may be pretty good. But what is the cost of a long hospital stay both monetarily and to your health and family.

Also, if you are fine with her decision for you not to visit her family at the cabin, why are you looking for support in your argument with her. Just don't go. It seems however that you aren't "fine" with her decision for you and your family not to go to their cabin. Solution, get your own cabin and go there.
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