What was your first encounter with the "Spirit of VCII"?
#41
(06-29-2009, 07:49 PM)glgas Wrote: It is a mystery for me, why the western word changed so fast. I left Hungary in 1981, a table faced the people but the original altar and tabernacle was unchanged, and except the vernacular that change in the mass was hardly recognizable, people confessed before communion, communion was distributed at the communion rail to a few who kneeled. In 1981 and 82 a spent a time in Bavaria (Munich)  very similar picture.

Many of the ethnic Hungarian parishes in the cities of the northeast U.S. kept a lot of their traditions.  Where I'm from, the closest Hungarian parish kept using the communion rail until about 1983.  Saint Ladislaus.  Beautiful church, the people very devout, nuns in full habits.  One of the few times I have been to a new Mass that was offered facing ad orientem.  I have seen that only twice in my life.
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#42
I suppose my first encounter was either during the time I was receiving instructions to enter the Church or immediately thereafter (1984).  I was in some kind of meeting at the church (I have no recollection as to why or what the meeting was about) and there was a "sister" there (in business attire, of course) who was pretty much running the show.  She made some sarcastic remark about how horribly wrong we (Catholics) were to have thought the Catholic Church had the whole truth.  Not being a theologian myself and realizing I could never take on this bastion of theological wisdom I simply thought to myself: "I distinctly remember Jesus promising to send the Paraclete and that He would guide the Church into ALL truth.  Also, I wondered how someone like that could hold such a belief and in good conscience recite the Creed each week.  Wasn't there something in there about the Son being "God from God, Light from Light, TRUE GOD FROM TRUE GOD?"  Now, if the Son were True God from True God, He can not lie and if He said He would guide the Church into all truth, didn't he?  As I said, what did I know?  Fortunately, I found a more traditional parish not long after that. 
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#43
I would like to thank everyone for their posts, especially Benno and glgas. My experience was one that several other trads have told me they had as well. We had an old Polish priest as our parish pastor until 1973-4. He was allowed to continue to say the Latin mass until his retirement, when he was replaced by a devilishly handsome young priest with an impressive mane of blond hair, mustache, and a penchant for sprinkling his conversations with words like "hell" and "damn" not used in their proper theological sense. Many of the ladies, my mom included, thought he was the greatest thing since sliced pepperoni, a real breath of fresh air. Some kids thought he was "cool." Soon afterwards the church building itself started to change. They brought in paperback missalettes, laid carpeting in the aisles, replaced the organ with a piano and eventually gutted our beautiful Polish-cathedral style building, turning it into a stage set from a Star Trek episode.

I went from liking going to church, especially to the mysterious Midnight Mass at Christmas and to Wednesday night confession, when the candles threw flickering shadows behind the statues and the parishioners recited their penances in whispered voices, to becoming totally bored and indifferent there. I knew something was wrong but as others here have stated, I didn't know what it was.  The fact that this rebellion against Tradition occurred at the same time as I was going through adolescence didn't help my perserverance any, and by the time I got to college I no longer believed the Catholic Church was anything special at all.

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#44
We were cheated. I don't mean to give myself a free pass on this; I accept full responsibility for my own shallowness and faithlessness. What I mean is that these same changes we saw in our churches, we saw everywhere:  in clothing styles, music, automobile and furniture design, in our neighborhoods and schools and workplaces. Everything became shinier, colder, harder, faster; plastic replaced wood, polyester replaced cotton, compact discs replaced vinyl LP's, yelling replaced singing, automated messages replaced real human beings, profit margins replaced reliability, situational ethics replaced right and wrong.

Nostalgic blubbering? Perhaps. But Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ recommended that we become again as children. I wonder how many of today's young will want to return to their childhood when they are grown up. Will they remember bicycling over to a friend's house, climbing into a leaky old rowboat with him and heading out onto the lake with no other object than to search for a giant turtle they had glimpsed from the shore the day before? Will they remember a softy cone from Dairy Queen as a big treat that meant that Mom had managed to save a little bit extra from Dad's paycheck through her adroit cutting and saving of coupons? Will they remember the hushed silence at a Midnight Mass?

What we have lost? No...what we have traded.
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#45
St Benedict of Nursia (480-547) lived in a similar age as we are. Unlike most of
us, he understood, that the Roman culture is over, the Barbarians will bring
their own. So he told to his followers: Go up to the hills and survive. When the
time is coming (it came 400 years later in the time of the Reform of Cluny) come
down and give them the culture what you preserved.

It seems to me, that the changes after Vatican II created a small but growing
group adhering to the tradition which could survive and transfer the values of
our Christian culture to the posterity after a while of destruction.

God is writing straightforward in crooked lines. He accomplishes His goals.,
despite our clumsiness.

laszlo

(06-30-2009, 12:39 AM)il_lebbroso Wrote: I would like to thank everyone for their posts, especially Benno and glgas. My experience was one that several other trads have told me they had as well. We had an old Polish priest as our parish pastor until 1973-4. He was allowed to continue to say the Latin mass until his retirement, when he was replaced by a devilishly handsome young priest with an impressive mane of blond hair, mustache, and a penchant for sprinkling his conversations with words like "hell" and "damn" not used in their proper theological sense. Many of the ladies, my mom included, thought he was the greatest thing since sliced pepperoni, a real breath of fresh air. Some kids thought he was "cool." Soon afterwards the church building itself started to change. They brought in paperback missalettes, laid carpeting in the aisles, replaced the organ with a piano and eventually gutted our beautiful Polish-cathedral style building, turning it into a stage set from a Star Trek episode.

I went from liking going to church, especially to the mysterious Midnight Mass at Christmas and to Wednesday night confession, when the candles threw flickering shadows behind the statues and the parishioners recited their penances in whispered voices, to becoming totally bored and indifferent there. I knew something was wrong but as others here have stated, I didn't know what it was.  The fact that this rebellion against Tradition occurred at the same time as I was going through adolescence didn't help my perserverance any, and by the time I got to college I no longer believed the Catholic Church was anything special at all.
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#46
I have no way of recalling.  Being born 40 years ago I was baptized the old way but right after that everything was the new stuff.  So I was lucky and got my inoculation.

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#47
My first VC2 encounter was with a Pancho Priest, Father ("Don't Call Me 'Father'") Joe, who flashed me a peace sign and said "Peace, Baby!"
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#48
(06-30-2009, 07:39 AM)Scipio_a Wrote: I have no way of recalling.   Being born 40 years ago I was baptized the old way but right after that everything was the new stuff.  So I was lucky and got my inoculation.

If you were born 40 years ago, you most likely were baptized in a revised baptismal ceremony.  The new rite of baptism was promulgated in early 1969, but Latin had nearly disappeared from the administration of the sacraments by that time.
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#49
Considering the 2000 year history of the Church, 30 years might seem like a drop in the ocean. But not when you're living through it. First it was vernacular and versus populum in the 60s, then lay lectors in the 70s, then EEMs in the 80s and altar girls in the 90s. Those last two are the elephants in the liturgy (living room). As the Church becomes more traditional, I believe the last will be the first to go.

I'm old enough to remember the old Latin Mass (pre-1962), the mid-sixties "transitional" Mass (for lack of a proper term), and the Novus Ordo. The "Spirit" of Vatican II was around the whole time. As a small child I wasn't aware of it, but my parents and grandparents were. Change was in the air and change doesn't happen overnight. The Council was called in the first place was because that "Spirit" was already haunting us.

I guess I first knew the "Spirit" was here to stay when we had to study Jesus Christ Super Star in high school religion class. Four semesters were devoted to "poor-old-Judas" and a flower-power Jesus and a Mary Magdalene who sang "I don't know how to love him." And when the school year was over, we didn't know how to love him either.

- Lisa
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#50
(07-01-2009, 09:11 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: The Council was called in the first place was because that "Spirit" was already haunting us.

I - Lisa

Matthew 16

16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven

Matthew 28

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.


Its OK, God is in charge of His Church.  It is my belief that Almighty God did not let the gates of hell prevail in Vat II.










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