How Would You Act as Pope?
#61
(07-28-2009, 03:07 PM)nsper7 Wrote: Compromise is not always bad. It is only bad if you compromise on key issues (i.e. doctrine, dogma). Like I said, in the end, Anglo-Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox would have to be somehow convinced to accept Papal Infallibility.

"Somehow"...

You make that sound easy. That is the biggest problem to overcome and the most difficult.
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#62
Does anyone remember the fictional consistorial scenario, the speech of "Papa Valeska," that forms the coda of Fr. Malachi Martin's The Keys of this Blood? Yeah, something like that.
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#63
(07-28-2009, 02:47 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 02:37 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote: 6) I would really encourage the growth of the Eastern Rites. In Greece, only the Greek Catholic Rite would be allowed; in Russia, the Russian; etc. As opposed to having the Latin Rite prevalent even in traditionally Eastern Rite countries

Only?!

So...the Eastern Rites would not be allowed in areas where the Latin rite is used?

Only! Or least, close to it. In Greece, there are 200,000 Catholics; of those, only 5,000 are in the Greek Catholic Church.

But in Latin countries, the Eastern Rites could be used, only because the goal is to encourage the growth of the Eastern Rites. With the Latin Rite being 99% of the Church in terms of  numbers, something's off-balance (considering there are 23 sui iuris Churches).
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#64
(07-28-2009, 04:58 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 02:47 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 02:37 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote: 6) I would really encourage the growth of the Eastern Rites. In Greece, only the Greek Catholic Rite would be allowed; in Russia, the Russian; etc. As opposed to having the Latin Rite prevalent even in traditionally Eastern Rite countries

Only?!

So...the Eastern Rites would not be allowed in areas where the Latin rite is used?

Only! Or least, close to it. In Greece, there are 200,000 Catholics; of those, only 5,000 are in the Greek Catholic Church.

But in Latin countries, the Eastern Rites could be used, only because the goal is to encourage the growth of the Eastern Rites. With the Latin Rite being 99% of the Church in terms of  numbers, something's off-balance (considering there are 23 sui iuris Churches).

Maybe it is off balance because large number of Eastern Catholics left the Church out of their own pride. The issue isn't the "growth" of the Eastern rite, but the schisms of the Eastern churches which happened. In Greece, I bet you will find many more Greek Orthodox church members. Right?

"Affirmative action" doesn't work in any way.
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#65
(07-28-2009, 03:09 PM)DrBombay Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 03:03 PM)nsper7 Wrote: But why would I make a bad Pope? I would try my hardest to serve the Church to the best of my ability.

Because you are naive, lad.  And woefully ignorant of theology, philosophy, Church history, Canon law, liturgy, international protocol, office politics, sexual dynamics, pastoral considerations, the meaning of scandal and tact, among other things.  That's why.   :tiphat:

But he's got a great tailor! Vestus Papum Redit
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#66
(07-28-2009, 02:18 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 11:11 AM)Scipio_a Wrote:
(07-27-2009, 07:30 AM)nsper7 Wrote: And I'd be just as blunt with SSPX: either accept the Church, Vatican 2 and all, or you're in schism.
And then you'd be in schism and we could all laugh about how sorry a "Pope" you;d been.

The Pope cannot b schism since he is the Pope. Basically, I am tired of SSPX trying to straddle the fence (they say are obedient to the Church, yet they refuse to accept the Pope's authority on matters they disagree with). Thus, I would put it to them plainly, there are two options:

A) You are fully obedient to the Church and the to the Pope. You will publicly submit yourselves to Papal authority, accept the validity of Vatican 2 and the Mass of Pope Paul VI. You will utterly renounce any sedevacantist ideas and you will issue a statement publicly condemning the idea. They will issue a comprehensive letter of apology for their actions that have led to division in the Catholic Church. Even though I normally don't want people kissing the Papal Ring, I would probably make every one of their clergy do so as a sign that they are fully resubmitting to Papal authority.

B) If they refuse, they are now deemed a schismatic group and all their clergy will be under a ban of excommunication. It will be deemed utterly inappropriate for the faithful for attend an SSPX Mass unless that is the only option in the area.

It sounds harsh, but what other option is there? I respect their desires and motives, but you cannot allow loose cannons on deck as it were. If they want to be society of the Catholic Church, then they must submit to the same level of authority as all other orders do.

Actually the thought has been held that he can be and once is is then not...that would be you...

Trads have operated under a clown like you before for over 20 years...we can do it again...an excom from a guy like you are trying to paint yourself is not something people who know the Faith are afraid of...it's justy a waste of time and a loss of souls we feel sorry for...the ones you misguide.

The SSPX has always argued against "the theory" and the other option would be for you to convert to Catholicism!  And operate as atrue Pope should.
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#67
nspe7 wants to be John Paul the smallest!  or is that St. JP3 :laughing:

Just don't frech the koran to one up the last guy
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#68
(07-28-2009, 05:05 PM)Scipio_a Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 02:18 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 11:11 AM)Scipio_a Wrote:
(07-27-2009, 07:30 AM)nsper7 Wrote: And I'd be just as blunt with SSPX: either accept the Church, Vatican 2 and all, or you're in schism.
And then you'd be in schism and we could all laugh about how sorry a "Pope" you;d been.

The Pope cannot b schism since he is the Pope. Basically, I am tired of SSPX trying to straddle the fence (they say are obedient to the Church, yet they refuse to accept the Pope's authority on matters they disagree with). Thus, I would put it to them plainly, there are two options:

A) You are fully obedient to the Church and the to the Pope. You will publicly submit yourselves to Papal authority, accept the validity of Vatican 2 and the Mass of Pope Paul VI. You will utterly renounce any sedevacantist ideas and you will issue a statement publicly condemning the idea. They will issue a comprehensive letter of apology for their actions that have led to division in the Catholic Church. Even though I normally don't want people kissing the Papal Ring, I would probably make every one of their clergy do so as a sign that they are fully resubmitting to Papal authority.

B) If they refuse, they are now deemed a schismatic group and all their clergy will be under a ban of excommunication. It will be deemed utterly inappropriate for the faithful for attend an SSPX Mass unless that is the only option in the area.

It sounds harsh, but what other option is there? I respect their desires and motives, but you cannot allow loose cannons on deck as it were. If they want to be society of the Catholic Church, then they must submit to the same level of authority as all other orders do.

Actually the thought has been held that he can be and once is is then not...that would be you...

Trads have operated under a clown like you before for over 20 years...we can do it again...an excom from a guy like you are trying to paint yourself is not something people who know the Faith are afraid of...it's justy a waste of time and a loss of souls we feel sorry for...the ones you misguide.

The SSPX has always argued against "the theory" and the other option would be for you to convert to Catholicism!  And operate as atrue Pope should.

You act as though I am not a Traditional Catholic. I am currently looking into either joining the ICKSP or the Canons-Regular of St. John Cantius (a small Trad group in the upper midwest).
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#69
I would hold all religious orders/societies/etc. to the same standards I hold the SSPX:

1) They must be obedient to the Church and the Pope
2) They must be orthodox in their teaching and orthopraxic in their disciplines

I would certainly call "liberal" groups to account, but everyone must be measured up against the same stick. I cannot allow the SSPX to be disobedient even though they claim they are only doing so to promote "True Traditional Catholicism" and then only come down on liberal Catholic groups when they are disobedient or cause trouble. Every order within the Church, regardless of how they style themselves or see themselves, must obey the Church.
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#70
(07-28-2009, 05:00 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 04:58 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 02:47 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 02:37 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote: 6) I would really encourage the growth of the Eastern Rites. In Greece, only the Greek Catholic Rite would be allowed; in Russia, the Russian; etc. As opposed to having the Latin Rite prevalent even in traditionally Eastern Rite countries

Only?!

So...the Eastern Rites would not be allowed in areas where the Latin rite is used?

Only! Or least, close to it. In Greece, there are 200,000 Catholics; of those, only 5,000 are in the Greek Catholic Church.

But in Latin countries, the Eastern Rites could be used, only because the goal is to encourage the growth of the Eastern Rites. With the Latin Rite being 99% of the Church in terms of  numbers, something's off-balance (considering there are 23 sui iuris Churches).

Maybe it is off balance because large number of Eastern Catholics left the Church out of their own pride. The issue isn't the "growth" of the Eastern rite, but the schisms of the Eastern churches which happened. In Greece, I bet you will find many more Greek Orthodox church members. Right?

"Affirmative action" doesn't work in any way.

No, it doesn't. But consider this: of the 200,000 Catholics in Greece, 50,000 are native-born Greeks. Of those, 5,000 follow the Greek Rite; the rest have gone Latin.

But according to canon law, when a person converts from Orthodoxy, they automatically join the corresponding Catholic Rite. As well, canon law says that when a person is baptized, they are baptized into the Rite of their father. Given that those native Greek Catholics, somewhere down the ancestral line, had Greek Orthodox fathers who joined the Catholic Church, a case could be made that these Catholics are truly Greek-Rite; thus, to provide the Greek Liturgy to these Catholics is to restore their religious heritage.


And in many places, Rome is going ahead with "liturgical affirmative action". In Eritrea, the hierarchy used to be all Latin; however, as of now it is the only country with a Catholic population, but no Latin presence. They all follow the Ge'ez Rite now.
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