Pope Benedict: Obsessed with Celestine V??
#21


Pope's bones survive earthquake
Published: April 9, 2009 at 2:57 PM

L'AQUILA, Italy, April 9 (UPI) -- The bones of one of the Catholic Church's most enigmatic popes survived the Italian earthquake and were taken Thursday from the church where he was buried.

St. Celestine V's bones will be stored safely while the Basilica di Collemaggio in L'Aquila, which was damaged in the quake, is repaired, the Italian news agency ANSA reported.

''It's another great miracle by the pope,'' said Fabio Carapezza Guttuso, head of the country's Heritage Security Commission, of the survival of Celestine's earthly remains.

The pope hoped to spend the rest of his life as a hermit. His successor, Boniface VIII, instead imprisoned him in a castle where he died within a year, ANSA reported.

The poet Dante, who despised Boniface, blamed Celestine in "The Inferno" for his "great refusal" of responsibility. But Celestine has been admired by many for his virtue.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/04/09/P...239303447/
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(Not all scholars agree that the lines by Dante that supposedly refer to Celestine were intended to refer to Celestine.  But having Dante in the mix is interesting.  I haven't learned why he despised Boniface yet.  i.p.i.)
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#22
Just as a fact.

Pope Benedict learned a lot about the Liturgy from Romano Guardini (Italiian priest 1885-1968) This Guardini wrote a wonderful book: The letters of Pope Celestine VI  about the crisis of the Catholic Church in the beginning of the 20th Century.

Otherwise apparently the cript itself was damaged by the earthquake

http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/200...cs-of.html

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#23
(07-04-2010, 02:59 PM)i.p.i. Wrote:
(07-03-2010, 06:50 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: Why did Boniface imprison him?  ???

this is from a site devoted to all the pope's histories.  the article seems to have been written by a european [the way the dates are written indicates that] and someone whose english is imperfect but it's not hard to figure out the meaning despite the occasional error.  it includes several photos and a detail of a painting of Celestine V's coronation; when you click the thumbnail of the painting, you see the entire image but in b/w, which is disappointing.  the photos enlarge more satisfactorily.

http://www.archelaos.com/popes/details.aspx?id=225

i added bolding regarding Boniface's motivation and Celestine's imprisonment and death, statements which may be open to debate.  no doubt historians have studied these events and there are references available but finding them online may be impossible unless you have a better search engine than the free ones.

"The 80 year old Celestine V abdicated on 13 Dec, 1294. Confronted with his affairs by the Franciscan poet, Jacopone da Todi, Celestine sought initially to hand over parts of his authority to 3 different cardinals, but this was rejected. His request to abdicate were initially rejected as well; however, cardinal Benedetto Gaetano, seeking for himself the pontifacy, convinced the other cardinals that this unprecedented request was indeed legal.


Castle of Fumone
Cardinal Benedetto immediately locked Celestine into a prison in the castle of Fumone, lest he should become the tool schismatics. Most probably Benedetto didn't want the abdication to be declared illegal, and his own ascension to pope as well. Hearing of the news, King Charles II along with a host of supporters, surrounded the prison and begged Celestine to reconsider. Nine days later, the resignation was declared irreversable, and the cardinals entered the conclave to elect a successor. The next day, Cardinal Benedetto Caetano was proclaimed Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303). Boniface would cancel most of the decrees of Celestine. He would also waste no time enriching himself and his family.

With aid from his supporters, Celestine escaped prison, but continued to be persued by Boniface for nine months. Eventually he was captured and returned to prison where he died ten months later on 19 May 1296. Many scholars believe he was murdered there by Boniface VIII. His skull was found with a nail-sized hole in it. He was buried near the castle, but his bones were later moved to the church of Aquila, where they remain venerated today. He was canonised a saint by Pope Clement V (1305-1314) in 1313. His feast is celebrated on 19 May.

here is the enlarged photo of Celestine's skull, showing the hole made by a nail or other sharp object:

http://www.archelaos.com/popes/image.aspx?id=65

also,

"Several Italian dailies quoted the Rev. Quirino Salomone on Wednesday as saying a CT scan performed on Celestine's mummified remains 10 years ago showed a half-inch hole in the left temple."

according to an article at

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=AASB&p_theme=aasb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EA07674B2438A37&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

A. Baker says charges that Boniface killed Celestine or had him killed are calumny, which is what the Catholic Encyclopedia says.  But the CE was published in 1913 and if the remains are mummified, it's entirely possible that the hole in the flesh no longer is visible and the hole in the skull was not visible without a CT scan, which was not yet invented in 1913.  It certainly seems that he was killed, unless it can be proven that the wound was postmortem.  Whether it can ever be determined "whodunnit" is another matter altogether.  I haven't read all of the second article because you have to join the site first and i don't have the time right now.  I doubt it has any more details as to "whodunnit" or that would have been mentioned in the first paragraphs but I'll check it out later.

I do not trust this site. They have hostile biographies of Pius XII and Benedict XVI and other Popes and thus seem to be anti-Catholic.
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#24
(07-04-2010, 03:46 PM)glgas Wrote: Just as a fact.

Pope Benedict learned a lot about the Liturgy from Romano Guardini (Italiian priest 1885-1968) This Guardini wrote a wonderful book: The letters of Pope Celestine VI  about the crisis of the Catholic Church in the beginning of the 20th Century.

Otherwise apparently the cript itself was damaged by the earthquake

http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/200...cs-of.html


great photos there of St. Celestine V's mummified remains, in beautiful vestments with mitre, of course, in a glass casket.  Benedict XVI is shown placing his pallium on the casket and then walking beside it.

thanks for posting that link, gigas.  have you read Fr. Romano Guardini's book about Celestine's letters?
it's not available at amazon unless it's one of the German titles.  they stock four pages of his books, i'd guess three or four dozen titles, and about half were in German.  i'll see if i can get it in English through interlibrary loan.

being mummified, i suppose St. Celestine must be considered an incorruptible.  he looks very small to me.  i thought his leg bones might be missing but he seems to be wearing shoes, and being mummified he should be in one piece.  compare him to the current Holy Father and St. Celestine seems to be only as tall as from Benedict's knees to his head.  of course people used to be smaller, generally speaking, and i suppose natural mummification may shrink the body after death.  

i am interested in learning more about this saint, who spent his whole life trying to find solitude and kept being followed by people who wanted to learn holiness from him, much like St. Benedict and other holy hermits.  i am really glad to have learned we are in a Celestine Year; before it ends on August 29, i want to learn more about him and his importance to Fr. Guardini and to the Holy Father.  i guess i'm becoming 'obsessed' with Celestine V.

thank you for starting this thread, Cetil.  

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#25
(07-05-2010, 01:24 AM)i.p.i. Wrote: great photos there of St. Celestine V's mummified remains, in beautiful vestments with mitre, of course, in a glass casket.  Benedict XVI is shown placing his pallium on the casket and then walking beside it.

thanks for posting that link, gigas.  have you read Fr. Romano Guardini's book about Celestine's letters?
it's not available at amazon unless it's one of the German titles.  they stock four pages of his books, i'd guess three or four dozen titles, and about half were in German.  i'll see if i can get it in English through interlibrary loan.

I have the book in Hungarian. Searched for English, but found no translation.
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#26
Dante puts Boniface VIII in the eighth circle of Hell for stealing the keys from St. Celestine. Anyway, this thread has inspired me to put in a request at the library for a volume of medieval hagiography that contains his autobiography :)
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#27
Well I guess this old thread is worth a little bump right now...

C.
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#28
(02-13-2013, 12:42 AM)Cetil Wrote: Well I guess this old thread is worth a little bump right now...

C.

Wow.  Yeah.
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#29
This thread is very interesting.  It has an FE of fond memory (glgas RIP) former admin (Quis) poster turned nun (Karyn Ann) and Walty from three years ago. 
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#30
"The Church too must use the shepherd’s rod, the rod with which he protects the faith against those who falsify it, against currents which lead the flock astray. The use of the rod can actually be a service of love. Today we can see that it has nothing to do with love when conduct unworthy of the priestly life is tolerated. Nor does it have to do with love if heresy is allowed to spread and the faith twisted and chipped away, as if it were something that we ourselves had invented. As if it were no longer God’s gift, the precious pearl which we cannot let be taken from us. Even so, the rod must always become once again the shepherd’s staff – a staff which helps men and women to tread difficult paths and to follow the Lord."



http://www.zenit.org/article-29576?l=english

Thank you for sharing this. I really needed to hear it today.

C.

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