Transalpine Redemptorists: ‘When we left, the stones came from behind’
#11
(10-03-2010, 12:20 PM)glgas Wrote:
(10-03-2010, 10:48 AM)PeterII Wrote: If you use your brain instead of following your feelings, and don't defend every single thing the Pope does, such as all the modern ecumenical gatherings, you are a schismatic. 

Yes.

If you listen to the temptation of the Satan,  (Gen 3:5)

and even related to supernatural things (which are supernatural because they are above your rational judgment)

you want to decide what is good and what is evil

against the God appointed teaching authority the Magisterium, (Matt 16:18, John 21:17,  DS 717)

then yes, you are schismatic.

Do not deceive yourself. If you cannot appeal to a general council, you can not appeal to yourself neither, whi are much below the general council.

Looks like Fr. Michael Mary listened to a temptation of Satan then. 
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#12
(10-03-2010, 10:48 AM)PeterII Wrote:
(10-03-2010, 08:33 AM)karyn_anne Wrote: i don't get this, but it seems as if the SSPX are painted as seeing the current Pope as a false pope or something

If you use your brain instead of following your feelings, and don't defend every single thing the Pope does, such as all the modern ecumenical gatherings, you are a schismatic. 

Sadly Peter, we're not all fortunate to be able to hear the audible voice of God when making decisions.  I think its more likely that the Spirit directed Fr. Michael Mary's heart towards the way he was supposed to go.  In addition, this decision wasn't made on a whim, but done after much study (he even consulted the theologians in his one camp, and they couldn't give a satisfactory answer).  Satan works off lies.  If something is reasonable, then its more likely from God.
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#13
Quote:Sadly Peter, we're not all fortunate to be able to hear the audible voice of God when making decisions.  I think its more likely that the Spirit directed Fr. Michael Mary's heart towards the way he was supposed to go.  In addition, this decision wasn't made on a whim, but done after much study (he even consulted the theologians in his one camp, and they couldn't give a satisfactory answer).  Satan works off lies.  If something is reasonable, then its more likely from God.

From the Ignatian perspective, I would say Fr. was tempted under the guise of good.  There is more than enough information to a give satisfactory answers to the jurisdiction question on the SSPX websites alone. 

Also, the fact that the SSPX are conducting doctrinal discussions with Rome show that there is no schismatic intent.  Where did this pressing need for ordinary jurisdiction suddenly come from?  Fr. Mary claims, "Currently, their marriages could be automatically annulled by the Church if the couple wanted a divorce; that, clearly, was a problem."  Yes, that is a problem - another Novus Ordo problem.  It's not the SSPX's problem if the Novus Ordo authorities are declaring annulments in cases where they shouldn't. 
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#14
(10-03-2010, 12:20 PM)glgas Wrote:
(10-03-2010, 10:48 AM)PeterII Wrote: If you use your brain instead of following your feelings, and don't defend every single thing the Pope does, such as all the modern ecumenical gatherings, you are a schismatic. 

Yes.

If you listen to the temptation of the Satan,  (Gen 3:5)

and even related to supernatural things (which are supernatural because they are above your rational judgment)

you want to decide what is good and what is evil

against the God appointed teaching authority the Magisterium, (Matt 16:18, John 21:17,  DS 717)

then yes, you are schismatic.

Do not deceive yourself. If you cannot appeal to a general council, you can not appeal to yourself neither, whi are much below the general council.

Sorry gassy but nowhere does it say we have to worship the Pope like you and other neocaths.
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#15
Where did they expect the stones to come from?

The NO Catholics didn't donate them an island and half a dozen other properties and a few million bucks.

Hard-core traditionalists who move their families to the arse-end of beyond and change jobs to support the Transalpine order are obviously going to be angry and let-down when the leader makes a decision like that.  Middle-of-the-Road Trads were not the people supporting this order.

I've known these people since they started and the problem, in my opinion, is that the leader Fr. Sim has some sort of wanderlust or attention deficit disorder.  First they were in Guildford, Surrey which is actually the most sensible place they ever were, as within 1 hours travel they had 15 million people and plenty of Trads they could have supported.  Then they moved to the Isle of Sheepey (a backwater in Kent which was desperately difficult to get to).  Then they moved to Joinville, France which is on the road to nowhere and where they were not much use to the locals since none of the brothers spoke decent French and finally to a remote Island off the cost of Scotland.  That let down people who had moved to the Isle of Sheppey since they no longer had daily mass or the sacraments.

Those lay people that made financial and career sacrifices to support them are understandably pissed off that they've suddenly woken up and decided after 20 years that Rome was right after all.

And all because of feelings....nothing more than feelings.


The proof of the pudding is what Rome do with them and whether they are just left to rot, breakdown and disband or get  the freedom and power to do some good in the world.

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#16
(10-04-2010, 03:29 AM)ggreg Wrote: The proof of the pudding is what Rome do with them and whether they are just left to rot, breakdown and disband or get  the freedom and power to do some good in the world.

Jesus Christ saved the world by emptying himself on the tree and loosing all the power, even his life.
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#17
Hardly.  Two days later he was back again, Risen from the Dead, confounding his critics, giving an enormous boost to the Apostles and within 40 years the Jewish temporal order was smashed and 300 years later Christianity was the official religion of the greatest world power at the time.

Hardly comparable to Father Sim's busted flush (as it looks at the moment).  The problem is that he has joined a Church and agreed to report to a hierarchy which is chock full of heretics and apostates. A risky move and one I don't understand the particular motivation for.  Pope "frees" the mass and we all drop our guard and rush back into line?  After the mess of the last 40 years I want a little more road testing before I buy the car.

If the Transalpine Redemptorists don't get to interact with souls because the Novus Ordo establishment hamstrings them, then who are they going to help redeem?

Sure they can pray for souls, as we all can, but I think the whole reason d'etre of their order is to be out there witnessing to the faith.  You cannot do that from an island in a remote part of Scotland which is practically inaccessible to 99% of the British public.  It is quicker for me to fly to Australia than get to Papa Stronsay and I dare say it doesn't cost much more either.

What makes me laugh about the whole situation - and confuses me not a little - is that Father Sim was always such a hard-arse and firebrand type who would rigorously defend the faith and make comments about modesty and modernism which would put him squarely in the camp of the most ultra-traditionalists.  Why he wants to be in "full communion" (whatever that means), with this Pope rather than the last one I have no idea. I see more similarities between their errors than differences.  Why now?  (Other than feelings)

If Jesus had taken 2 years to rise from the dead, (not 2 days) I reckon most of the Apostles would have gone back to fishing and figured it was game over.

Seems to me that Father Sim made a sudden and very risky move. I hope he pulls it off and his brothers and monks can do some good, but that is far from certain.   I know the modern Church no longer believes in a spiritual Limbo but Father Sim and his order appear to be occupying a temporal one.
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#18
(10-04-2010, 03:29 AM)ggreg Wrote: Those lay people that made financial ...sacrifices to support them are understandably pissed off that they've suddenly woken up and decided after 20 years that Rome was right after all.

Not to mention those who enrolled people in the Purgatorian Archconfraternity, but now can't get the  Masses offered when a member dies because they (at Papa S.) do not honor their obligation.  >:(
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#19
(10-04-2010, 09:15 AM)ggreg Wrote: If Jesus had taken 2 years to rise from the dead, (not 2 days) I reckon most of the Apostles would have gone back to fishing and figured it was game over.

:laughing:
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#20
(10-02-2010, 12:49 PM)James02 Wrote:
Quote: “I, Fr Michael Mary, believe tonight that Pope Benedict XVI is the true Pope of the Catholic Church, and that I must now do everything possible to live in union with him.”

This is key. 

Did he not believe it before?  I was not aware he was a closet sedevacanatist.    ::)
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