Willful Ignorance over the Pope's Remarks
#81
(11-21-2010, 07:48 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 07:28 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 07:12 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 06:31 PM)JayneK Wrote: By going ahead with the killing he shows that he has not yet made enough moral progress.  This does not mean that he has made no progress.

I was not raised Catholic.  In my teens I became a Protestant.  This was progress, but I had not yet found the fullness of truth taught by the Catholic Church.  Even when I first became Catholic, I was in a very liberal parish that taught me some things that were wrong.  It took me years to go through the process of developing a correct understanding of Christian doctrine.  Moral development often follows a similar process.  Sometimes these things take time.

Let's say that you were an atheist who enjoyed participating in ritual murder. Say you then became a theist and joined a protestant sect which practiced ritual murder. Progress?

Yes, that is progress.  A few years ago I travelled from Ontario to Prince Edward Island.  When I was in Quebec, I had made progress.  I had moved away from my starting point and was closer to the end point.  You seem to think that being in Quebec would not count as progress because I was not in PEI yet.

Let's say that, while in Ontario, you start digging. Say hell is in the center of the earth. While digging, you start walking - very, very slowly - towards PEI . You're walking and digging at the same time. You end up longitudinally closer to PEI, yes. But you end up in hell.

You haven't made progress, because progress isn't about horizontal movement; it's not about left or right. Progress pertains to the vertical, the up or down. We're either cooperating with the supernatural, with grace, or we're not.

There's no cooperation with grace while one continues to commit murder. And there's no cooperation with grace while one continues to commit sodomy. While using a condom, though his goal be the reduction of AIDS, the sodomite is still digging his way to hell.

Yes, I know that all of this will be too black-and-white for the cognoscenti, far too little nuanced for the sophisticates. The teaching of Christ was also insufficiently nuanced for the Sadducees. Ask yourselves, sophisticates, if you're in good company.

Are people in a state of mortal sin completely incapable of making prudential and good decisions regarding an objective, even if it is an evil one?
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#82
(11-21-2010, 07:48 PM)Jitpring Wrote: There's no cooperation with grace while one continues to commit murder. And there's no cooperation with grace while one continues to commit sodomy. While using a condom, though his goal be the reduction of AIDS, the sodomite is still digging his way to hell.

Yes, I know that all of this will be too black-and-white for the cognoscenti, far too little nuanced for the sophisticates. The teaching of Christ was also insufficiently nuanced for the Sadducees. Ask yourselves, sophisticates, if you're in good company.

A person in the state of mortal is capable of growing in moral understanding.  It is irrelevant how nuanced what you are saying is.  It just isn't Catholic teaching.
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#83
Why can't Benedict XVI just be asked to reaffirm the clear teaching of Pope Pius XI in Casti Connubii?
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#84
The pope has a responsibility to be clear on the Church's teachings. As Jesus said let your Yes be Yes , Your No be No!!!!
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#85
(11-21-2010, 08:10 PM)salus Wrote: The pope has a responsibility to be clear on the Church's teachings. As Jesus said let your Yes be Yes , Your No be No!!!!

Yes, why can't Benedict XVI just be asked to reaffirm the clear teaching of Pope Pius XI in Casti Connubii? If he can't do it, then he is suspect of heresy.
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#86
Within the context of his remarks he condemned contraception, it is the media which exerts a great deal over people's minds to make them think that two plus two is five.
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#87
(11-21-2010, 08:35 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Within the context of his remarks he condemned contraception, it is the media which exerts a great deal over people's minds to make them think that two plus two is five.

We think alike.
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#88
(11-21-2010, 08:09 PM)lamentabili sane Wrote: Why can't Benedict XVI just be asked to reaffirm the clear teaching of Pope Pius XI in Casti Connubii?

You can ask him. I'm pretty sure the Vatican's address is on the FE web site.





*modified for spelling. Darn cat.
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#89
(11-21-2010, 08:35 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Within the context of his remarks he condemned contraception, it is the media which exerts a great deal over people's minds to make them think that two plus two is five.

I agree...the media try to spin things any which way they can just to sell news; however, for this reason it may be prudent for the pope to restrict his interviews to Catholic journalists only.
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#90
(11-21-2010, 08:02 PM)JayneK Wrote: A person in the state of mortal is capable of growing in moral understanding. 

Yes, but while in mortal sin he's still headed to hell - like the sodomite who uses a condom. Headed to hell. This isn't progress.
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