Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris
#21
(04-15-2011, 02:55 AM)Gerard Wrote: oh.. look at this.  Someone posted this link and it looks like I'm behind the curve.  I was speculating on things that have already occurred. 


http://markshea.blogspot.com/2010/09/sun...ss-of.html


Quote: Monday, September 20, 2010
Sungenis Gives Michael Voris the Kiss of Death

From Sungenis' site: "Michael Voris on Jews & Judaism - Someone Finally Got it Right"

That's all the warning anybody needs.
I wonder if that's the video I have pinned on the Zionism subforum as something everyone should watch so they know the deal.

All he says is Jews as an ethnic group is not the problem, Judaism as a religion is a false one and that is the problem.  Which, duh, is the truth as the Church always taught it.

Yet again, I've woken up in the Matrix.
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#22
Just another johnny-come-lately convert along with Jimmy Akin, Scott Hahn, Father Z etc. who are going to lecture the rest of us on what it means to be Catholic. These guys need a good Church history lesson before spouting off.

No I have absolutely nothing aginst converts. My wife is a convert. I just get agitated at these guys who seem to think that the II after John Paul's name means that he was the second pope after St. Peter. These Neo-Catholic converts weren't in the trenches trying to save the Faith after the shipwreck of V2. They weren't organizing mass centers in hotel conference rooms or garages. Now they are trying to throw overboard those who are trying to preserve the Faith as it has always been practiced. I simply have no time for their ilk.
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#23
Here's my response posted on Shea's blog (I was in a pissed-off mood  >:():

Quote:Wow. 

"The Pot calling the Kettle black" is just so woefully inadequate in conveying the absurdity of this inspid article from Shea. I knew Mr. Voris' success and refreshing candor was going to eventually be met by the usual "fatwas" from the usual people. I'm always intrigued as to why so many of these Evangelical-turned-Catholics types are so quick to decry the prominence of a leading Catholic apologist simply because he has the audacity to hint of doctrinal impropriety amongst the clergy. I'd imagine that Protestant converts, having formerly adhered to a sect primarily borne of former Catholic clergyman gone wild, would appreciate vigilance on the part of faithful Catholics to an incresingly dissident clergy and prelature. 

What's really the matter Shea? Is this "upstart" Voris stealing the lime light? Is it because Mr. Voris wasn't groomed by Catholic Answers and the Neo-Con-Catholic ilk you're so intertwined with? Not part of the Boys Club of modern Catholic apologetical demigods that speak as if they hold the patent on Catholic orthodoxy? I wonder what more invective is being primed for launch against Voris. I see the "anti-semite"-card is already being pushed into position. Disgusting. 

What exactly do you find so reprehensibe in Voris's video that merits your righteous indignation? I've watched and rewatched said video and there is not a single syllable that is objectionable to Catholic thought. How in Heaven's name can it possibly bode well for the spiritual health of a parish if the Parish Priest is willing to give over the ambo to Al Gore over our Lord's Resurrection on the holiest day of the Church's liturgical calender? I can guarantee you that such an abuse is symptomatic of a parish already plunged in doctrinal and liturgical chaos. No fidelitious Priest worth his maniple would ever let such an abuse find an outlet in the Holy Sanctuary ... and any Catholic who hears "Mother Earth" over "the Risen Christ" should get the kids, their wallets and their souls and make for the parking lot faster than a knife fight in a phone booth. 

So enough with the melodramatics, pal. You're just embrassing yourself.


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#24
Shea has had a beef with Trads for years, so it's no surprise if anyone who even echos what Trads have been complaining about will be on his list of those he may consider persona non grata.

Oddly enough, Shea's son is a Traditionalist, albeit one who says he enjoys both the TLM and the NOM.

http://athanasiuscm.blogspot.com/2008/08...lling.html
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#25
(04-15-2011, 12:09 AM)Beatissima Mariae Wrote: http://markshea.blogspot.com/2011/04/if-...ining.html

Shea uses some really derogatory language, "voris fanboys", "voris groupies", etc.

I hope Voris does not dignify this by responding to this childish rubbish.

But Sheas whole premise is just absurd. Voris is not commanding Catholics to do anything. Only strongly suggesting people seek out more Orhtodox parishes if your current parish starts espousing earth day clap trap on Easter. Doesn't take a Bishop to mete out this kind of invaluable advice.

Shea... Tsk tsk tsk

Absolutely. A quote from Voris “if the priest even so much as breathes a word about Earth Day, throw nothing in the collection plate, finish your Sunday obligation and resign from that parish on Monday.”

IAnd one from Shea:
hope that someone more capable than I am could explain to Mr. Voris that Jesus is present in all the tabernacles of the world. All of them.[b] Don't abandon Him there because you disagree with the priest, no matter how wrong he is about something.[/b]

The second statement is slanderous. It makes it SEEM as if Voris is advocating that we leave Jesus if we refuse to put up with the weakened Pablum that has passed for sermons during the past 40+ yrs. I receive a newsletter from  the alumnae & a couple of "new age nuns"of the Sacred Heart prep school I attended many years ago. The last one I got was unbelievable.  There was not a MENTION, in the 4 pages, of the Sacred Heart of Christ, of the Sacraments, of the rosary, of daily prayer, etc. It was about "hugging trees".  I sent it back to them along with a letter telling them that my husband & I LIVE '"green" & that I receive all of the info I need about that from our local Conservation office & that I expected MORE from the alumnae newsletter. I advised them to stop wasting postage money on me if they were going to send meaningless info that I can get from secular sources. Does that mean "I've left Jesus"?

As far as leaving a parish that will not preach the true gospel, or adher to the teachings of the Catholic Church...........I believe that is our DUTY.

BTW. In my city, it's hard to FIND the Tabernacle. My own parish is the only one that has it placed on the high altar. In the rest of the Churches here, it's been moved to the "cry room"/sacristy/who knows where.
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#26
Voris is correct, in his video, but he fails to EVER ask how things got so screwed up and screwed up on a near global basis.

It's like he is exposing the mess at Enron but refuses to implicate his holiness Ken Lay or his eminence Jeff Skilling and lays all the blame at the head of energy trading services in Houston.

It's really getting rather silly.  The current Pope has been a senior member of the Church's Hierarchy for 30 years!  He's not some bishop from Matabeleland.elected three months ago.

The buck stops at the top in a democracy so it CERTAINLY MUST in a hierarchy.  Until Voris and Shea can admit this, I won't be donating either a red cent.

As for Earth Day parishes, who cares?  I am a Traditionalist and this will never happen in my neck of the woods.

I'm sure no parish springs earth day on you.  You must have had 100 warning signs that the priest has lost his faith LONG before now.

None of this is going to change unless a higher power changes it.  The Pope has had 30 years to take action.  Eventually God will do it.
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#27
(04-15-2011, 08:27 AM)ggreg Wrote: Voris is correct, in his video, but he fails to EVER ask how things got so screwed up and screwed up on a near global basis.It's like he is exposing the mess at Enron but refuses to implicate his holiness Ken Lay or his eminence Jeff Skilling and lays all the blame at the head of energy trading services in Houston. It's really getting rather silly.  The current Pope has been a senior member of the Church's Hierarchy for 30 years!  He's not some bishop from Matabeleland.elected three months ago. The buck stops at the top in a democracy so it CERTAINLY MUST in a hierarchy.  Until Voris and Shea can admit this, I won't be donating either a red cent.  ....None of this is going to change unless a higher power changes it.  The Pope has had 30 years to take action.  Eventually God will do it.

I think this is indicative of a problem of an ultramontanist attitude that goes back before the Council.  Had it not existed, the Council would not have gone down the way it did.  Strategically, and I agree with you, Voris is guilty of this, it seems to have been thought that you must stay away from the Pope if you want to have credibility.  Instead of just giving the Pope due credit when he does his job and holding him accountable when he doesn't,  you are toast if you aren't acting as if you are speaking for the impeccable Pope.  They all want to claim the Pope and their "loyalty" as the ace up their sleeves.  Liberals would be all over someone (think LeFebvre or Williamson ) if they dared point out the human failings of Popes who aren't excercising infallibility.  The interesting thing is Voris is not protected by his leaving the Pope unaddressed as a cause of the trouble.  So, that strategy may be abandoned, we can hope. 


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#28
Is Voris' MONTH predicated on always tolerating what the hierarchy does all the time.  Seems to me his recent posts attacking Catholic schools are an implicit criticism of the Hierarchy.  So, he does a lot of playing Bishop in his own right especially when he declares this or that person more Catholic than the Pope or decides to declare himself the arbiter of political correctness when he attempts to accuse, like a dirty Communist muckraker, that Micheal Voris is "anti-semitic" as if the vacuous term had any currency at all.

Shea is a lot more like a fashion consultant than a Catholic apologist, he's really more interested in how things appear to an approved consensus than he is in the truth.
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#29
(04-15-2011, 06:11 AM)username123 Wrote: Just another johnny-come-lately convert along with Jimmy Akin, Scott Hahn, Father Z etc. who are going to lecture the rest of us on what it means to be Catholic. These guys need a good Church history lesson before spouting off.

No I have absolutely nothing aginst converts. My wife is a convert. I just get agitated at these guys who seem to think that the II after John Paul's name means that he was the second pope after St. Peter. These Neo-Catholic converts weren't in the trenches trying to save the Faith after the shipwreck of V2. They weren't organizing mass centers in hotel conference rooms or garages. Now they are trying to throw overboard those who are trying to preserve the Faith as it has always been practiced. I simply have no time for their ilk.

There was an Anglican bishop who converted some time ago and stunned some by not demanding to be given some sort of Church office.  If I recall correctly, he said that this was a chance for him to become versed in the faith.

The point is that converts at the very least need time before educating others in the Faith because 2000 years of organic development is a lot to handle.  Clearly, given the bizarreness eminating from various Neo enclaves, most don't have a good grasp.
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#30
(04-15-2011, 01:22 PM)kingtheoden Wrote: There was an Anglican bishop who converted some time ago and stunned some by not demanding to be given some sort of Church office.  If I recall correctly, he said that this was a chance for him to become versed in the faith.

The point is that converts at the very least need time before educating others in the Faith because 2000 years of organic development is a lot to handle.  Clearly, given the bizarreness eminating from various Neo enclaves, most don't have a good grasp.

There are some very good and orthodox converts though, obviously.  Many of whom are members on the forum. :)

I understand what you are saying, but I can't blame the lack of grasp solely on the converts who suffer it.  It's not like the bishops are demanding a good grasp from them.  In fact, there are too many bishops that probably think the convert Neo-Catholics over-converted.
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