Going to hell for rejecting vocation?
#61
You may be nuts regardless.
:tiphat:
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#62
I don't advise many people to do this, but I think you should avoid the Internet as much as possible. It does not seem to be aiding your religious life. There's so much crap out there, and it's easy to get sucked in to the craziness. In all seriousness, make an appointment with your spiritual director, and ask that you and he draw up a reading plan for you. There's no shortage of great books to read, and not all have to be entirely religious, there are also the classics. After all, if you end up in the seminary, you will be spending your time reading and studying anyway, so you might as well get a headstart on it now!
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#63
(06-03-2011, 08:05 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 07:24 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 07:12 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 07:02 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 02:34 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:58 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:39 PM)Aragon Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:37 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:29 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: Well another thing that I did today was read quotes from latin fathers like St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Jerome, etc. Reading them it does seem like marriage is a sort of consolation prize.

In fact some of those saints said the only good they see in marriage is that it has the potential to produce more virgins.



Interesting.

You are not judged by what vocation you chose.  You are judged by how you fulfill it.  Do not worry about going to hell simply because you got married or became a priest.  These things in and of themselves do not amount to Heaven or Hell.  

St. Augustine had a bit of a warped view of sex. He spent so many years being a man-whore that when he converted he went from one extreme end of the spectrum to another.

Are we allowed to believe that as catholics? Because I came to the same conclusion as yourself but I feel guilty about it because St. Augustine was proably top 3 one of the most influential saints. If i start to criticize his views on sex (As the orthodox do) it starts down a slippery slope to doubting all his other views.

St. Augustine was not perfect.  He, like all in the communion of saints, has a lot to offer.  But he was not infallible.


I can't believe this lack of respect for a great holy saint who is already high up in Heaven, coming from some people who might not even make it to Purgatory!  Saint Agustin, dear friend and brother in the Lord, please pray for us sinners who think we know something and know nothing!  Thank you dear saint!

I think St Augustine would be more concerned with a person who argued him to be infallible than one who pointed out (and this pov is consistent with Church teaching) that he isn't.  St Augustine was a critical thinker.  Far be it from me to presume to know the mind of a Doctor of the Church but I think he would appreciate the objective and true statement that WRC has made.

Yes, St Augustine pray for us.

Saint Augustine was not 100% right all the time.  I am simply aghast at the lack of respect shown towards a Doctor of the Holy Roman Catholic Church who is in Heaven right now holding a conversation with Saint Thomas Aquinas.

I don't see anyone disrespecting the beloved Doctor.  WRC simply said he is fallible.  And that is true.  Where do you see disrespect to him?


"St. Augustine had a bit of a warped view of sex. He spent so many years being a man-whore that when he converted he went from one extreme end of the spectrum to another."
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#64
(06-04-2011, 08:29 AM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote: You may be nuts regardless.
:tiphat:

I tend to agree.
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#65
(06-03-2011, 11:30 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 10:03 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: I agree with your dad: experience in the world is a good thing if you want to be a priest working in the world. Even if you disagree, you should give your father the benefit of the doubt. If you actually said his input was "ridiculous", I think he would have been in his rights to slap you across the face.

Furthermore, if you were a priest giving me advice, and I had found out you became a priest because of fear, I wouldn't take you seriously at all. A good priest in m estimation is manly and fearless as a soldier, not a servile coward. And if I were a non-Christian looking into a new faith, I wouldn't be interested in "your god" at all.

Anyway, from your posts you sound like an insolent kid who's puffed up with spiritual pride and  thinks he's wiser than his parents. I could be wrong or overly harsh, because it reminds me of how I used to talk to my mom (who's a Protestant). If I'm right in my assessment, then for the love of God, calm down, do less talking and more listening with regard to parents. Even if they're wrong. You won't change their minds by arguing, only by deeds.

Ya that could be very well a good description of myself. I am not happy I am miserable right now when thinking about God and just how easy it is to fall into mortal sin. I am stone faced all the time in mass and when I think about God. I feel guilty about doing basic liesure activities like basketball and going to a movie. I am definetly not attracting any converts by my cheerfullness. The last week or so I have had suicidal thoughts and have contemplated and just giving up altogether. I hold a lot of anger against the church for mandatory clerical celibacy, I feel its a double standard to deny heterosexual married men the priesthood but not polygraphy men to make sure homosexually attracted men dont enter the priesthood. Whats the point of me giving up sex/wife/kids if I am surrounded by a few gay priests who didnt make the same sacrifice I did? They would absolutely disgust me.  Probably a better chance I may be called to be a monk and not a priest with all this interior sadness/despair/depression. Right now its a beautiful day in my city and I cant even smile driving because I feel guilty about how the world is so messed up and the conciliar church is dragging souls to hell. Now I know how Francisco Marto felt

I know how you feel.  You should withdraw from the Conciliar Church and her tentacles altogether and take refuge in catholic  books published before 1958.  Like you say, because of her apostasy, "she is dragging souls to hell".  God loves you very much and you will overcome. 
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#66
You should not make any irrevocable decision (ordination or marriage) while you are in such a state of turmoil.

The suggestion to see a psychiatrist should not be seen as insulting or flippant.  Maybe not a psychiatrist, it's up to you ... but see someone like a Catholic counselor or a trusted priest who will help you.  Not help you make this decision.

Just to help you relax, and enjoy life appropriately.

There is sin and hell and apostasy, sure.  But Our Lord suffered, then rose from the dead.  We are in Ascentiontide.  We have been redeemed.  We have every reason to be happy.  Rejoice!

I think to emerge from these emotional issues with some stability -- *this* is your current "vocation."  After that, you will see more clearly.
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#67
(06-04-2011, 08:08 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: You should not make any irrevocable decision (ordination or marriage) while you are in such a state of turmoil.

The suggestion to see a psychiatrist should not be seen as insulting or flippant.  Maybe not a psychiatrist, it's up to you ... but see someone like a Catholic counselor or a trusted priest who will help you.  Not help you make this decision.

Just to help you relax, and enjoy life appropriately.

There is sin and hell and apostasy, sure.  But Our Lord suffered, then rose from the dead.  We are in Ascentiontide.  We have been redeemed.  We have every reason to be happy.  Rejoice!

I think to emerge from these emotional issues with some stability -- *this* is your current "vocation."  After that, you will see more clearly.


I hear that the highest percentage of suicides among professional people is that of psychiatrists.  These head-shrinkers need a dozen psychiatrists themselves and so on.  St. Dominic Savio all he has to do is pray the Rosary everyday until he is finally cured and made to enjoy life.  Be it as a single man, a married man or a lay catholic missionry.
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#68
(06-04-2011, 08:21 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-04-2011, 08:08 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: You should not make any irrevocable decision (ordination or marriage) while you are in such a state of turmoil.

The suggestion to see a psychiatrist should not be seen as insulting or flippant.  Maybe not a psychiatrist, it's up to you ... but see someone like a Catholic counselor or a trusted priest who will help you.  Not help you make this decision.

Just to help you relax, and enjoy life appropriately.

There is sin and hell and apostasy, sure.  But Our Lord suffered, then rose from the dead.  We are in Ascentiontide.  We have been redeemed.  We have every reason to be happy.  Rejoice!

I think to emerge from these emotional issues with some stability -- *this* is your current "vocation."  After that, you will see more clearly.


I hear that the highest percentage of suicides among professional people is that of psychiatrists.  These head-shrinkers need a dozen psychiatrists themselves and so on.  St. Dominic Savio all he has to do is pray the Rosary everyday until he is finally cured and made to enjoy life.  Be it as a single man, a married man or a lay catholic missionry.

It's nice that you hear that, please provide sources!  It is higher I think than other medical fields, probably because people with mental illness who can get through medical school are more likely to be interested in  helping others with mental illness, just like guys who like sports are more likely to go into sports medicine and someone who overcame a childhood disease might then want to go into pediatrics.

But that's besides the point, note that I suggested a counselor or a trusted priest.  But the OP doesn't need more suggestions about prayer and religion -- he is reading and thinking enough about it.  He needs help relaxing. 

To the OP: maybe you could plan relaxing fun outings with male friends.  Get involved in your parish, and in ways that won't exacerbate your problem (e.g. volunteer to help clean / paint or something like that).  Enjoy God's creation.
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#69
(06-04-2011, 08:21 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-04-2011, 08:08 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: You should not make any irrevocable decision (ordination or marriage) while you are in such a state of turmoil.

The suggestion to see a psychiatrist should not be seen as insulting or flippant.  Maybe not a psychiatrist, it's up to you ... but see someone like a Catholic counselor or a trusted priest who will help you.  Not help you make this decision.

Just to help you relax, and enjoy life appropriately.

There is sin and hell and apostasy, sure.  But Our Lord suffered, then rose from the dead.  We are in Ascentiontide.  We have been redeemed.  We have every reason to be happy.  Rejoice!

I think to emerge from these emotional issues with some stability -- *this* is your current "vocation."  After that, you will see more clearly.


I hear that the highest percentage of suicides among professional people is that of psychiatrists.  These head-shrinkers need a dozen psychiatrists themselves and so on.  St. Dominic Savio all he has to do is pray the Rosary everyday until he is finally cured and made to enjoy life.  Be it as a single man, a married man or a lay catholic missionry.

wulfrano, you are not giving good advice.
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#70
(05-31-2011, 07:48 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: Has the church ever ruled officially on what happens to those who reject a priest/religious vocation?  Are they headed to hell? Are they most likely going to go there unless they do _X penance? Is it fair to compare a young man's discernment in modern day society to that of the 12 apostles themselves 2,000 years ago? Or are they slightly different callings?

I didn't read much past the first few posts. But FWIW, here are some quotes I've seen on it:

Quote:What the Saints say. The saints speak in very clear and strong language on this point:

St. Gregory Nazianzen: “I hold that the choice of a state in life is so important, that it decides for the remainder of our life, whether our conduct will be good or bad.”

St. Alphonsus: “If, in the choice of a state of life, we wish to secure our eternal salvation, we must embrace that state to which God calls us; in which alone God prepares for us the efficacious means necessary to our salvation… God gives to every one his vocation and chooses the state in which he wills him to be saved.”

St. Alphonsus: “It is evident that our eternal salvation depends principally on the choice of our state in life.”

St. Vincent de Paul: “It is very difficult, not to say impossible, to save one’s self in a place, or in a state, in which God does not wish one to be.”

St. Paul (speaking of his own vocation): “For if I preach the gospel, it is no glory to me: for a necessity lieth upon me. For woe is unto me if I preach not the gospel.” (I Cor. 9:16)

“Salvation in the Balance.” So, if your salvation is so much wrapped up in this decision, it is indeed a big decision. It is not a de fide teaching that to choose the wrong vocation means certain damnation, but the difficulty of saving your soul in a state God did not call you to would be nearly impossible to overcome. This is especially if you clearly knew you were resisting God’s manifest will for you. I believe this is the lesson of the rich young man in the Gospel, the one who “went away sad” when Jesus called him. The fact that he turned down a direct divine invitation could explain our Lord’s harsh words: “And Jesus looking round about, saith to his disciples: How hardly shall they that have riches, enter into the kingdom of God! And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus again answering, saith to them: Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches, to enter into the kingdom of God? It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. ” (Mark 10:23-25).

Sorry if I'm repeating something already posted in the 7 pages of this thread I didn't read.
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