Going to hell for rejecting vocation?
#81
(06-04-2011, 10:25 PM)Pheo Wrote:
(06-04-2011, 10:03 PM)wulfrano Wrote: Tell me then how many psychiatrists  :pazzo: do you see kneeling before the Holy Virgin and praying the daily Rosary to her glory?

We have a psychiatry resident here on FE.  Add to that one of my good friends who is a devout Catholic applying to psychiatry for her residency...so 2.  Heck I'm even considering it...well, considering.  Point is, they exist.  Far outnumbered probably, but then that would apply to every specialty.

I am so glad to learn that here on FE we have a psychiatry resident who is catholic and is faithful to tradition.  May the Lord God bless his or her practice.  And I am so glad that you have a good friend who is a devout catholic applying to psychiatry for her residency.

I never had the opportunity to say the same thing.  All I ever knew were anti-religious pompous self-sufficient atheists.   


@ Pheo.  If you have vocation, go ahead with a career in Psychiatry.  The world needs catholic psychiatrists.
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#82
wulfrano, extremism on any side is wrong.  Blanket statements like that only impugn alot of good people, they don't do any good.  They lead people to dispair.  It's not healthy on any account.
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#83
I do not understand how Catholic 'extremism' is wrong. How many of the Saints were tepid and apathetic? None.
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#84
(06-04-2011, 11:40 PM)dymphna17 Wrote: wulfrano, extremism on any side is wrong.  Blanket statements like that only impugn alot of good people, they don't do any good.  They lead people to dispair.  It's not healthy on any account.

Dear Dymphna:

Thank you for your balanced comments and good judgment.

I think you are right in that blanket statements do impugn a lot of good people and lead people to dispair.  

However, certain blanket statements are irrefutable.  For example, that one about the lack of chastity in the clergy  because of default in the sacraments that in the old days would have helped a priest or seminarian be chaste.  And the other example is that all seminaries or members of the clergy teach either the Conciliar doctrine, the Lefebvre doctrine or the Thuc doctrine...  all three doctrines certainly not healthy on any account.

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#85
(06-04-2011, 10:03 PM)wulfrano Wrote: @ Dr.Bombay  :pazzo:

Tell me then how many psychiatrists  :pazzo: do you see kneeling before the Holy Virgin and praying the daily Rosary to her glory?

Tell me then how many seminaries do you know where there is not a single homosexual  :pazzo: nor a single paedophile  :pazzo: nor a single bisexual  :pazzo: nor a single fornicator  :pazzo: nor a single masturbator, :pazzo:  nor a single pornovideo collector? :pazzo:

Did you know that many american diocesis are going broke over lawsuit claims on account of predator priests  :pazzo: :pazzo: :pazzo:formed in such seminaries?

If I had a son I would never send him to any seminary of the Conciliar Church, or of the Lebvre Church or of the Thuc Church.  By the time you discover they are a cesspool... it's too late.  Your son is by then already corrupted!

I don't trust a single one of them.  That's the reason for my blanket statement: "They are all cesspools."

I you don't believe me... go and become a seminarian in any those cesspools and then we'lltalk again.

And this is in the material sense.  In the spiritual sense they all are cesspools of false doctrine.  That also is the reason for my blanket statement.

Just because you don't trust a single one means nothing.  You are presuming that every seminary is corrupt and unless you've spent time in a seminary, it's highly unlikely you know anything about what exactly goes on in one.  You have no idea what a seminarians daily routine is, what his prayer life may be, what kind of spiritual director he has.  You have no clue as to what he is being taught or anything else about him.  Yet you choose to drop your nasty little insinuations, even about a man, Archbishop Lefebvre, who dedicated the last years of his life defending Tradition.

Frankly, I don't even know why you're here except to make snippy comments about other people on the assumption that you and you alone maintain the Deposit of Faith.  Your consistent attacks against the Church are certainly not helping the kid who started this thread. 

Go sell crazy somewhere else.  We're all stocked up here.  :pazzo:
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#86
(06-05-2011, 01:13 AM)DrBombay Wrote:
(06-04-2011, 10:03 PM)wulfrano Wrote: @ Dr.Bombay  :pazzo:

Tell me then how many psychiatrists  :pazzo: do you see kneeling before the Holy Virgin and praying the daily Rosary to her glory?

Tell me then how many seminaries do you know where there is not a single homosexual  :pazzo: nor a single paedophile  :pazzo: nor a single bisexual  :pazzo: nor a single fornicator  :pazzo: nor a single masturbator, :pazzo:  nor a single pornovideo collector? :pazzo:

Did you know that many american diocesis are going broke over lawsuit claims on account of predator priests  :pazzo: :pazzo: :pazzo:formed in such seminaries?

If I had a son I would never send him to any seminary of the Conciliar Church, or of the Lebvre Church or of the Thuc Church.  By the time you discover they are a cesspool... it's too late.  Your son is by then already corrupted!

I don't trust a single one of them.  That's the reason for my blanket statement: "They are all cesspools."

I you don't believe me... go and become a seminarian in any those cesspools and then we'lltalk again.

And this is in the material sense.  In the spiritual sense they all are cesspools of false doctrine.  That also is the reason for my blanket statement.

Just because you don't trust a single one means nothing.  You are presuming that every seminary is corrupt and unless you've spent time in a seminary, it's highly unlikely you know anything about what exactly goes on in one.  You have no idea what a seminarians daily routine is, what his prayer life may be, what kind of spiritual director he has.  You have no clue as to what he is being taught or anything else about him.  Yet you choose to drop your nasty little insinuations, even about a man, Archbishop Lefebvre, who dedicated the last years of his life defending Tradition.

Frankly, I don't even know why you're here except to make snippy comments about other people on the assumption that you and you alone maintain the Deposit of Faith.  Your consistent attacks against the Church are certainly not helping the kid who started this thread. 

Go sell crazy somewhere else.  We're all stocked up here.   :pazzo:


@ Dr. Bombay  :pazzo:

Dear Doctor  :pazzo: :  You seem to be in quite a fright    :pazzo: as to what is being discussed here.  The Church is going broke worldwide because of  paedophile priests, paedophile bishops and paedophile Cardinals.  The Church is being sued worldwide because of unchastity in the clergy.  I simply state that the reason is the absence of true grace-giving sanctifying sacraments.  Just yesterday I found the following item in Internet.  It is for you. Said priests, bishops and cardinals did not just appear out of nowhere.  They came out of the seminaries you love so much.  I don't need to go inside them.  "By their fruits thou shalt know them".  I need not remind you that Lefebvre always demanded from his seminarians and priests and bishops absolute recognition of Paul VI in spite of the fact that it was Paul VI who in 1968 destroyed the catholic ordination of priests with an anglican ritual of ordination, who in 1969 destroyed the catholic Mass with his Novus Ordo, and who in 1976 destroyed all the catholic sacraments with his false ritual of administration of sacraments.  I am not saying that all  seminarians are perverts.  What I am saying is that all seminaries are cesspools at least at the doctrinal level.


"Dozens of victims of child rape filed on June 1, 2011, the first European lawsuit against Benedict-Ratzinger. Belgian authorities flew to Newvatican to serve Newpope to answer charges in court for "failing to stop the assaults and rapes perpetrated by the Newchurch presbyters and bishops under his responsibility." Already some 80 child victims have joined the legal action, and more are joining daily. This is the first time in Europe that legal proceedings have been initiated against Benedict-Ratzinger in his official capacity as "head of the Holy See."

"The groundbreaking legal action charges that Benedict-Ratzinger "is the appointer and authority over the bishops, which means that he can be liable for their errors. In addition, he can be held liable for his own faults. He neglected to intervene himself and to give instructions, which meant that abuse was liable to continue and the damage was able to increase."

"Belgium's Newchurchers and government are reeling over revelations in 2010 of nearly 500 cases of sex crimes by Newchurch bishops, presbyters, and church officials, which caused thirteen suicides among the child victims. But now the worm has turned for Benedict-Ratzinger, who has been implicated in these crimes since John Paul II-Wojtyla brought him to Newrome to be Sex Crimes Czar for Newchurch.

"Benedict-Ratzinger is now, in several countries around the world, facing the judgment of the criminal and civil courts. Newpope has been served in no less than three federal actions in United States courts for gross negligence in supervising his officials -- charges for which "diplomatic immunity" is not operative. As one of the Belgian victims of Newpope's abetting of crimes on the part of his Newclergy stated: "We've all been living for years with a Church which is in denial. Now we're turning the situation around. We're in charge, we're choosing an independent judicial framework." Belgian officials revealed that Benedict-Ratzinger, knowing how vulnerable he is, has offered 5,000 Euros for the child victims to "shut up," but the victims refused the hush-money and decided to institute legal action against him instead.

"Benedict-Ratzinger's malfeasance broke onto the front pages when in April 2010, when it was revealed that the Newbishop of Bruges, Roger Vangheluwe, confessed that he had raped his two nephews from the age of six for a period of over a decade, and then boasted about his "conquests" in a television interview. Benedict-Ratzinger refused to take any action against his perverted Newbishop, but merely sent him off to a Church "spa" for "treatment." The Belgian government was irate and began a public investigation into Benedict-Ratzinger's personal complicity in the crimes. The Ghent Tribunal is expected to set hearings for the case against Benedict-Ratzinger in September 2011. [Some information for this Commentary was contributed by Agence France-Presse.] "

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#87
(06-04-2011, 07:13 PM)wulfrano Wrote: Ya that could be very well a good description of myself. I am not happy I am miserable right now when thinking about God and just how easy it is to fall into mortal sin. I am stone faced all the time in mass and when I think about God. I feel guilty about doing basic liesure activities like basketball and going to a movie.

It sounds like you likely have a serious form of scrupulosity. You should probably see a good Catholic psychologist. 
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#88
(06-04-2011, 08:49 PM)FHM310 Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 07:48 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: Has the church ever ruled officially on what happens to those who reject a priest/religious vocation?  Are they headed to hell? Are they most likely going to go there unless they do _X penance? Is it fair to compare a young man's discernment in modern day society to that of the 12 apostles themselves 2,000 years ago? Or are they slightly different callings?

I didn't read much past the first few posts. But FWIW, here are some quotes I've seen on it:

Quote:What the Saints say. The saints speak in very clear and strong language on this point:

St. Gregory Nazianzen: “I hold that the choice of a state in life is so important, that it decides for the remainder of our life, whether our conduct will be good or bad.”

St. Alphonsus: “If, in the choice of a state of life, we wish to secure our eternal salvation, we must embrace that state to which God calls us; in which alone God prepares for us the efficacious means necessary to our salvation… God gives to every one his vocation and chooses the state in which he wills him to be saved.”

St. Alphonsus: “It is evident that our eternal salvation depends principally on the choice of our state in life.”

St. Vincent de Paul: “It is very difficult, not to say impossible, to save one’s self in a place, or in a state, in which God does not wish one to be.”

St. Paul (speaking of his own vocation): “For if I preach the gospel, it is no glory to me: for a necessity lieth upon me. For woe is unto me if I preach not the gospel.” (I Cor. 9:16)

“Salvation in the Balance.” So, if your salvation is so much wrapped up in this decision, it is indeed a big decision. It is not a de fide teaching that to choose the wrong vocation means certain damnation, but the difficulty of saving your soul in a state God did not call you to would be nearly impossible to overcome. This is especially if you clearly knew you were resisting God’s manifest will for you. I believe this is the lesson of the rich young man in the Gospel, the one who “went away sad” when Jesus called him. The fact that he turned down a direct divine invitation could explain our Lord’s harsh words: “And Jesus looking round about, saith to his disciples: How hardly shall they that have riches, enter into the kingdom of God! And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus again answering, saith to them: Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches, to enter into the kingdom of God? It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. ” (Mark 10:23-25).

Sorry if I'm repeating something already posted in the 7 pages of this thread I didn't read.

These quotes are striking fear into me and I will always remember them. The thought of God abandoning me and refusing me certain graces that are needed for my salvation if I dont follow through with the religous life is truly frightening. I will show my parents these quotes and hopefully they will fianlly realize that there is a serious chance I could go to hell if I don't enter the seminary. I will also try to not flirt/date any women in the next 2.5 years while I enter the real world like my parents want me to. I also have a habit of listening to R/B music like "slow jamz", groups like Boyz 2 Men, Luther Vandross, Whitney Houston and such, dreaming romantically of having a wife someday and getting married. I should quit listening to this music and drop the romantic side of me if I truly want to follow God. Thank you all for the advice from people on here, I need to take a break from Fisheaters indefinetly.
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#89
Good job folks.  No, really.
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#90
(06-05-2011, 04:44 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: These quotes are striking fear into me and I will always remember them. The thought of God abandoning me and refusing me certain graces that are needed for my salvation if I dont follow through with the religous life is truly frightening. I will show my parents these quotes and hopefully they will fianlly realize that there is a serious chance I could go to hell if I don't enter the seminary. I will also try to not flirt/date any women in the next 2.5 years while I enter the real world like my parents want me to. I also have a habit of listening to R/B music like "slow jamz", groups like Boyz 2 Men, Luther Vandross, Whitney Houston and such, dreaming romantically of having a wife someday and getting married. I should quit listening to this music and drop the romantic side of me if I truly want to follow God. Thank you all for the advice from people on here, I need to take a break from Fisheaters indefinetly.


LOLOLOL.

Honestly, I don't really care what you do with your life, but my most important advice would be to just live and let live with your parents. You don't need to convince them of the righteousness of your every life decision. Based on what you've written here, you don't have a damn clue about how to work with parents, and showing them quotes on the Internet won't matter a fig, no matter who they're written by. They'll just prove to them that you have an unhealthy obsession with hell, fear and damnation.
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