Another EENS, please be patient...
(06-11-2011, 09:35 PM)wulfrano Wrote: OK  But please don't complain that millions are going to hell because they were not baptized with water by anyone at all.

I don't complain of God's justice.

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Although I believe in baptism of desire, I absolutely agree  that  missionary work is crucial.  Not knowing about baptism doesn't have the effect of producing even any desire  for it  (not even implicit). I think more missionaries teaching the true faith is a greater thing than discussing disputed theological questions, but I think God makes room for many things.

Sometime I guess we'll have to put these issues to rest... until next time  ;)  For now I'm planning to continue... Hopefully I won't get even more lost in past posts.
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(06-11-2011, 11:28 PM)Doce Me Wrote: Although I believe in baptism of desire, I absolutely agree  that  missionary work is crucial.  Not knowing about baptism doesn't have the effect of producing even any desire  for it  (not even implicit). I think more missionaries teaching the true faith is a greater thing than discussing disputed theological questions, but I think God makes room for many things.

Sometime I guess we'll have to put these issues to rest... until next time  ;)   For now I'm planning to continue... Hopefully I won't get even more lost in past posts.

You don't have to be a cleric in order to teach someone about the catholic faith.  In fact, every lay catholic is under charity obligation to do something about the salvation of non-catholics. For example,  Protestants (and we are talking here of about one billion of them) are on the road to hell because of their attitude towards Our Lady. 
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I appreciate your zeal friend.

I also appreciate your concern. But God is in control.

He is aware of the way things are. Remember:

"The arm of the Lord is not too short to save."
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(06-12-2011, 02:28 AM)Gregory I Wrote: I appreciate your zeal friend.

I also appreciate your concern. But God is in control.

He is aware of the way things are. Remember:

"The arm of the Lord is not too short to save."
Gregory, that sounds like Vatican 2 speech....
Kind of sounds as subliminally it's ok for protestants to stay protestant cause..."The arm of the Lord is not too short to save"..
I wonder what the martyrs and all the missionaries (RIP) would think about that expression.
It is our duty and command to evangelize all the corners of the world.
It's too easy to say...."don't worry about it..."The arm of the Lord is not too short to save."

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(06-11-2011, 07:52 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-11-2011, 01:07 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(06-10-2011, 06:47 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-10-2011, 07:59 AM)Stubborn Wrote: There is no one about to die in the state of justification whom God cannot secure Baptism for, and indeed, Baptism of Water. The schemes concerning salvation, I leave to the sceptics. The clear truths of salvation, I am preaching to you. - Fr. Feeney

I must remind you that Feeney was excommunicated by the Holy Office (former Inquisition) under Pius XII.

As was St. Athanasius and St. Joan of Arc.

FWIW, Fr. Feeney's excommunication was lifted before he died - he never recanted a thing nor was he ever even asked to recant a thing.

The excommunications of St. Athanasius and St. Joan of Arc were unjust and wrong and invalid.  The excommunication of Feeney was just, right and valid.

I'm surprised you actually believe that.
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(06-11-2011, 08:03 PM)wulfrano Wrote: You remind me of Job's friends.  Just read what God told them. 

wulfrano, please feel free to quote any Church authority who taught that the Doctrine of God's Divine Providence means that God creates circumstances for no purpose - other than to break His own Law.
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(06-12-2011, 04:20 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(06-11-2011, 08:03 PM)wulfrano Wrote: You remind me of Job's friends.  Just read what God told them. 

wulfrano, please feel free to quote any Church authority who taught that the Doctrine of God's Divine Providence means that God creates circumstances for no purpose - other than to break His own Law.

This! ;D

It is not Vatican II or Protestant to trust in God's providence. Millions will die. Millions will go to Hell. This will be just because God owes no one Heaven, and he deliberately chooses not to save those whom he does not elect to salvation. The Elect will be saved by God's designs, which are hidden. I simply contend that it will not consist of anything but the Catholic Faith and sacraments.
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(06-12-2011, 02:32 AM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote:
(06-12-2011, 02:28 AM)Gregory I Wrote: I appreciate your zeal friend.

I also appreciate your concern. But God is in control.

He is aware of the way things are. Remember:

"The arm of the Lord is not too short to save."
Gregory, that sounds like Vatican 2 speech....
Kind of sounds as subliminally it's ok for protestants to stay protestant cause..."The arm of the Lord is not too short to save"..
I wonder what the martyrs and all the missionaries (RIP) would think about that expression.
It is our duty and command to evangelize all the corners of the world.
It's too easy to say...."don't worry about it..."The arm of the Lord is not too short to save."


I wonder if the holy french jesuits who went and baptized hurons and iriquois had the same mind set as today's bingo-playing clergy.
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(06-12-2011, 04:17 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(06-11-2011, 07:52 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-11-2011, 01:07 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(06-10-2011, 06:47 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-10-2011, 07:59 AM)Stubborn Wrote: There is no one about to die in the state of justification whom God cannot secure Baptism for, and indeed, Baptism of Water. The schemes concerning salvation, I leave to the sceptics. The clear truths of salvation, I am preaching to you. - Fr. Feeney

I must remind you that Feeney was excommunicated by the Holy Office (former Inquisition) under Pius XII.

As was St. Athanasius and St. Joan of Arc.

FWIW, Fr. Feeney's excommunication was lifted before he died - he never recanted a thing nor was he ever even asked to recant a thing.

The excommunications of St. Athanasius and St. Joan of Arc were unjust and wrong and invalid.  The excommunication of Feeney was just, right and valid.

I'm surprised you actually believe that.


Check it out in history books.
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